Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Leading Hotels of the World




 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result was No consensus to delete, though I am going to check for copyvio. Until ( 1 == 2 )  17:02, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

The Leading Hotels of the World

 * – (View AfD) (View log)

This has not been justified as notable and has been noted as needing such since May 2007. Also, this seems to be entirely a marketing organization. Slavlin 16:54, 23 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Delete: although this company is probably important in its niche, this is not the same as notable. I couldn't find anything that would satisfy the WP:ORG requirement of reliable, independent secondary sources - I suppose this sort of thing doesn't get written about outside of travel industry promotional material. EyeSereneTALK 17:19, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete. There does not appear to be any assertion of notability of the subject (CSD A7). Agree with EyeSerene, too. --Deskana (talk) 12:43, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep I have no connection with the hotel industry but I have heard of this. Many of the member hotels are extremely famous (plenty of them have articles). I would say that this is more notable (and more likely to be looked up), than the articles about many hotel chains that meet WP:CORP. Golfcam 17:46, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep, though it needs work. This organization has been around for a while and has global reach. It has been written about in the travel press (that's how I knew about it before I saw this AfD), but a Google search turns up quite a few hits. I'm going against my natural deletionist tendencies here. Realkyhick 18:46, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete pending sources required per WP:CORP WP:ORG. Most of the article reads like a copyvio, probably from http://www.lhw.com/download_s/Company%20History.pdf. Sandstein 21:16, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete per above, and that notability is not inherited from its member hotels. Bearian 22:38, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep per Golfcam. Sources are not required to prevent deletion if the topic is significant. This page is not for cleanup. Abberley2 01:48, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment Abberley, assertions of notability are required to keep it and that assertion would need to be backed up by a source of some kind. If it is challenged, as this is being, then the challenged content needs to be sourced or removed. Slavlin 03:08, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I have added an assertion of notability. You are incorrect to say that being unsourced is in itself an adequate excuse for deletion. Trying to get articles on legitimate topics deleted on technicalities is destructive to the development of Wikipedia. Beorhtric 11:30, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I was not saying that a lack of sourcing is excuse for deletion. (I do believe that no article is better than a lousy one, but that is not the issue at hand.) What I was saying is that lack of notability is justification for deletion. As long as this article has been around without assertion of notability and with the general appearance of it as a marketing organization, I would want the sourcing for the notability. According to the sourcing guidelines, it is the responsability of the person adding content (assertion of notability in this case) to provide the source for it or it should be deleted. Slavlin 15:40, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep - I did a gsearch and got 417,000 hits; that would seem pretty notable. This organization represents some of teh most significant hotels in the world (I have no conflict here, but I have stayed in these hotels when in Europe several times). The article does need work, but it is notable. --Storm Rider (talk) 05:54, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Per WP:GHITS a google search is really not an assertion of notability. Slavlin 15:40, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
 * You can look up sources as easily as anyone else. Beorhtric 11:21, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Not if I don't have thos trade journals that other people are citing as justification to keep it. Slavlin 15:40, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep This is one of the most notable organisations in its industry. Have any of the delete voters looked through the leading business journals and academic books on the hospitality industry and on marketing, and failed to find verification of the notability of this organisation there? I doubt it, because I'm sure you would find some. I expect you have just used google, and its going to be hard to find quality sources there because when you do a google search for anything to do with hotels, you just gets sites that want to sell you a room. But that's just a systemic failure of google, not a reflection on the subject at hand. Your (and my) lack of easy access to good quality relevant sources should not be used as an excuse for deleting this article. Beorhtric 11:21, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Why should it not be used as an excuse to delete it? If the creator or other editors cannot source the notability of the organization, then it should be deleted till someone is willing to provide those sources. A larger Wikipedia is NOT a better one. Slavlin 15:40, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I'll take another look at it per WP:HEY. BTW, I have been awarded the volunteer of the year by a not-for-profit hospitality group (HI-USA) and have stayed at a couple of the members of the "Leading Hotels". Bearian 17:39, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
 * That shoulds perfectly reasonable to me, though please remember that those hotels being notable would not necessarily make the organization notable. What I would really like to see is some kind of reference to articles about this organization, paper would be fine as long as it meets the criteria for reliable sources. Slavlin 17:57, 25 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Strong keep - as per Beorhtric, this is an extremely notable group of hotels in the world, and I've stayed personally at at least ten of these myself. Don't let the hyperbolistic name get in the way of recognizing it is an important, notable and legitimate organization. -- Fuzheado | Talk 15:17, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Notability is not inherited from the member hotels. The hotels may be notable, keep their articles, but if this can't be shown to be an independantly notable organization, then it needs to go. Again, not saying I think it has to go, just that it needs to have some work done to keep it from just being a marketing hit on google. Slavlin 15:40, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete It is not a group of hotels. A group of hotels under common ownership or mangement might very well be notable, and sometimes even a better choice for articles than the individual hotels. But this is "a U.S. based marketing and trade association" the provide PR and advertising. they dont operate the hotels. I do not want to Speedy in the middle of an afd, and I am very reluctant to speedy any improvable article, but if I had encountered the article I would have said speedy delete as G11, commercial advertising -- just read the article--irremediable spam. DGG (talk) 01:17, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
 * DGG, I'm disappointed in your reasoning after having put reasonable comment on the Article Rescue Squadron page. The Leading Hotels of the World is a notable trade group, and while the article is indeed lacking and spam filled, this is not "Articles for Deletion Because of its Current State." If it can be a "Keep, but needs heavy revision," it should stil be a "Keep." You should judge the deletion not just on the contents of the article, but on the article title and merits of the subject. -- Fuzheado | Talk 04:29, 26 July 2007 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.