Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Lie: Evolution (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   redirect to Ken Ham and deleting history per consensus. Ron Ritzman (talk) 01:18, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

The Lie: Evolution
AfDs for this article: 
 * – ( View AfD View log )

The book fails WP:Notability (books), which states it must be "the subject of multiple, non-trivial published works." This does include "other publications where the author, its publisher, agent, or other self-interested parties advertise or speak about the book".

The book has won no awards and was published in 1987. In the more than twenty years since, has received only minor mentions from a small group of people.

At first, the book appears to have some notablity, but if you look closer at the sources there appears to be only minor mentions from self-interested parties and reviews from self-published books. There are four sources. One of the books in the article is published by iUniverse-- a self-publishing business. Another, which contains scientific criticism, is also self-published by the National Center for Science Education. The website review comes from Answers in Creation(this WP article directs to a general creationist page), a creation website ran by one person critical of book's type of creationism. The final book is published by Soft Skull Press, which appears to be a independent publisher with a poorly done website.

The article was kept from deletion in 2008 because of the aforementioned "references," which were not closely looked at. Link: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Lie: Evolution.

Without sourcing from non-trival publications or self-interested groups that self-published, the article will remain in poor quality about an unnotable book. HHaeyyn89 (talk) 21:20, 30 March 2011 (UTC)


 * It seems the book also nominated for deletion in 2006 at Articles for deletion/The Lie Evolution. The reason it was kept, and I quote, was because "the book has been published." HHaeyyn89 (talk) 21:33, 30 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Delete - The book doesn't seem to meet WP:BK. There appear to be no independent sources covering the book, nor any indication the book will become important in the future. Lord Arador (talk) 23:38, 30 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Literature-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 01:02, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Christianity-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 01:02, 31 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Delete: references to date lack depth of coverage, and no indication that less superficial sources are forthcoming. No in-depth reviews of this book have been forthcoming, and it appears to neither be particularly widely cited by fellow creationists nor widely criticised by the scientific community (the NCSE review would be reliable, but would not add to notability, as the NCSE is a specialist source, often giving coverage to quite obscure creationist literature). This may be because there is no indication that it makes any particularly original claims (just the normal anti-evolution diatribe). HrafnTalkStalk(P) 02:31, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete - coverage is trivial in reliable sources. WP:AfD has become much more exacting in the past four years, as our consensus has changed, especially concerning the notability of books. Bearian (talk) 17:18, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete a 1987 title with not a singlehit in google news.  not notable.I.Casaubon (talk) 17:46, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.