Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Mall at Sierra Vista


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result was Keep. The Placebo Effect 09:45, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

The Mall at Sierra Vista

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Non-notable mall in Arizona. A search for reliable sources online turned up nothing (heck, not even the opening date, which I can usually find within the first two pages). Ten Pound Hammer • (Broken clamshells•Otter chirps) 23:41, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Note I am crossing out my deletion rationale since the page has been greatly improved after its nomination. However, since some "delete" votes were cast, I cannot close this as a withdrawn nomination, and will leave this to be closed by an admin. Ten Pound Hammer  • (Broken clamshells•Otter chirps) 03:05, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
 * A quick search of the city newspaper's archives turned up "the Mall at Sierra Vista opened in 1999". This press release confirms the year (and gives the opening as October 1999). It also states the mall is the "The First Major Mall To Be Built In Southeastern Arizona Outside The Tucson Metropolitan Area". The newspaper article states 30% of the mall's shoppers are "well-to-do Sonorans" who come up from Mexico to shop at the mall. Hermosillo is about 3 hours away; even the border town of Nogales is 1 hr 11 mins away. It may be fairly notable for people to drive up to three hours to get there. Firsfron of Ronchester  00:19, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
 * You should see the parking lot at the mall in Plattsburgh NY, where a full 30% of cars have Quebec plates even though the town is a 90-minute drive from Montreal. Anyway...

The Mall at Sierra Vista is discussed in Ethel Jackson Price's 2003 book, Sierra Vista: a Young City with a Past ISBN 0738524344. The Mall is apparently enough of a draw to be used as a lure by real estate companies in Tucson, 70 miles away. The Mall also hosts an annual Festival of Giving and an annual Car Show for the Boys and Girls Club. This mall appears to be smaller than the two big malls in Tucson, but I'd say its regional impact is much larger. I've read Articles for deletion/Scottsdale Mall (another mall nom'ed for deletion by TenPoundHammer), and I know TPH wants to delete non-notable malls, but this one has significant regional influence, even on an international level, as shown by reliable sources. Firsfron of Ronchester 09:39, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete for lack of notability. --Blanchardb- Me  MyEarsMyMouth-timed 00:56, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep. I didn't know this, but apparently there is an International Council of Shopping Centers which ranks malls and shopping centers. According to their definitions (pdf) the Mall at Sierra Vista ranks as a Regional Mall, with between 400,000–800,000 square feet of space, and two or more anchors. It's the only mall in Cochise County, serving an area with a population of 117,755 and covering an area larger than the state of Connecticut. Since there are no malls in neighboring Santa Cruz or Graham Counties, or northern Sonora, Mexico, shoppers tend to come from long distances. "Shopping centers are usually notable if the scope of activities is currently and/or historically large enough in scale to warrant multiple, non-trivial published works of credible and reliable secondary source material to be written about it, produced independently of the mall owner or developer. [...] If an individual mall can be clearly shown to have significant cultural, social and economic impact on the local and regional market area, as supported by multiple credible and reliable secondary source materials, and especially (but not exclusively) if such impact approaches a national level, the mall is considered notable." I've already shown above the article from the Sierra Vista Herald "Mexican shoppers wield clout", which discusses the fact that 30% of the mall's patrons travel long distances from northern Mexico just to shop there. It's not a trivial mention, containing sections like: "In the past, he said, Nogales was the most desirable regional destination for Mexican consumers. But especially after the Mall at Sierra Vista opened in 1999, shoppers from Agua Prieta, Cananea, Fronteras, and even Nacozari and Cumpas, 120 miles south of the border, have been heading for the city."[...]"They make a whole production out of going up to Sierra Vista,” he said. “They go to the cinema, eat at the restaurants, and they go shopping. “They even go up there to buy tires for their cars.” Escobar said Sierra Vista is especially popular among well-to-do Sonorans. “It’s almost like a vanity thing for people to say they do their shopping there,” he said. In March, the management of the Mall at Sierra Vista decided to find out just how much of its sales were coming from Mexican customers. According to marketing coordinator Crystal Rivera, a poll of store owners indicated that roughly 30 percent of all shop purchases were generated by cross-border consumers." The mall also hosts an annual Festival of Trees
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Malls-related deletions.   -- the wub  "?!"  13:01, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Arizona-related deletions.   -- the wub  "?!"  13:02, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete. Simply too small for a US mall based on consensus in past AfDs.  It needs to be a super regional or have some other form of notability.  This article falls short in that regard for me.  Vegaswikian (talk) 20:08, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
 * "Smallness" is not a factor in deletion. The article establishes notability (international patrons) through reliable sources. What other notability would you require to keep the article? (This is not a rhetorical question; I'm willing to expand the article. It's still a stub). Firsfron of Ronchester  02:18, 29 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Keep - well sourced and notibility are satisfied. Exit2DOS2000   •T•C•  03:56, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep per Firsfron. --Fang Aili talk 18:04, 1 December 2007 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.