Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Man in the Moon Stayed Up Too Late (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. There were a number of opinions, but nobody except the nominator advocated deletion. A discussion on whether to keep, merge or redirect can be done away from the scope of AfD. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont)  17:53, 10 March 2020 (UTC)

The Man in the Moon Stayed Up Too Late
AfDs for this article: 
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Fails WP:NBOOK. As a fictional book, it only has the Shippey reference, and the coverage just doesn't seem to exist for a stand-alone article here. Hog Farm (talk) 17:13, 2 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Fictional elements-related deletion discussions. Hog Farm (talk) 17:13, 2 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Science fiction and fantasy-related deletion discussions. Hog Farm (talk) 17:13, 2 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Literature-related deletion discussions. Hog Farm (talk) 17:13, 2 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Poetry-related deletion discussions. Hog Farm (talk) 17:13, 2 March 2020 (UTC)


 * Merge short summary of this to Bree (where Prancing Pony has been merged). Chiswick Chap (talk) 19:20, 2 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Redirect to The Adventures of Tom Bombadil. It is one of the poems included in that book, and, according to this article, that book was where this title was first used, so it makes more sense to use that as the target.  Rorshacma (talk) 01:34, 3 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Retain (probably as a redirect) to preserve attribution - see the page history, where this page was created on 22 March 2004 by Ausir with material from Hey Diddle Diddle. One of the major edits where there is a need to preserve attribution (since this material is germane to other articles) is this one from 21 January 2010 by Elphion. It might be simplest to just redirect back to Hey Diddle Diddle and to put relevant material in other articles, citing the relevant page histories for attribution. Carcharoth (talk) 16:45, 3 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Don't delete, but any of several merge/redirect options might be appropriate. I noticed User:Abductive's comments in the previous AFD, and I found that he was correct.  As a result, I've added another source to the article.  I suspect that other editors could do the same.  WhatamIdoing (talk) 17:17, 3 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep. As I demonstrated in the previous AfD, there are analyses in scholarly sources. (Examples: D Marchesani - Mythlore, 1980; SM Deyo - Mythlore, 1986) The article also gets an average of 20 pageviews a day, suggesting that people are reading it. Deyo states that it was first published in Leeds's Yorkshire Poetry 2:19, October-November 1923, which means that it is not part of the Lord of the Rings, it is a standalone work. No merging is therefore appropriate. I am sorry that the nominator has made a series of errors, presumably out of ignorance, and they should withdraw this nomination. Abductive  (reasoning) 19:48, 3 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep meets, does not "fail" WP:NBOOK (and WP:GNG), anything written by Tolkien is notable ie. no. 5 - "5.The book's author is so historically significant that any of the author's written works may be considered notable.", in addition, this poem is subject to multiple (two or more) non-trivial independent sources, on top of the two cited by above, there is also "The Man in the Moon: Structural Depth in Tolkien" by Thomas Honegger in Root and Branch: Approaches Towards Understanding Tolkien. Coolabahapple (talk) 03:59, 4 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep: The best way to avoid these kinds of misunderstandings is to actually post the sources in the article, not just in the AfD discussions. :) I added the Marchesani, Honneger and Deyo sources to the page in a "Further reading" section. -- Toughpigs (talk) 20:35, 5 March 2020 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.