Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Moveable Museum


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   moot. The article has been rewritten as Mobile museums (in RVs). If that article is also deficient it would require a separate discussion. Consensus here is that the "Moveable Museum" is not suited for an article of its own.  Sandstein  09:06, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

The Moveable Museum

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It is a minor offering compared to many of the permanent exhibits in the AMNH, which do not have their own articles on Wikipedia, let alone a mention on AMNH's wiki article. It is a service of the Museum's education department, not in any way a major part of the greater museum's collections or research. Simply, it's not it's own entity.

The wiki-link to "Gottesman Center for Science Teaching and Learning" which just redirects to the AMNH article, which does not even have a section on its gottesman center, something so improbably looked up at all, makes this look like a bit of a vanity page created by someone in the museum's education department.

The majority of the sources for this article are either published by the museum, or are regarding specific events, visits by the moveable to communities in local papers, or municipal education dept literature also describing specific events. I can not find any articles about the MM in a de facto NYC news source, say, the Times. ViniTheHat (talk) 14:15, 1 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Hi Vini, thanks for your comments. While the Moveable Museum may be small relative to some other programs at the museum which do not have their own articles, as you may know, coverage or lack thereof in Wikipedia itself can neither establish or disestablish notability. Per the general notability guideline, the important question is whether the subject has gained significant coverage in reliable sources. Because the Moveable Museum is a very unusual program in New York, it has garnered a number of articles in the local newspapers (such as the Brooklyn Daily Eagle and the Woodside Herald). In addition, the program has attracted a great deal of interest in the local education community (including publications of the New York City Department of Eduation and the New York University Patient Library). It has also had some coverage in the national education community (such as publications from the organizers of National Lab Day and National Science Week). Below is a list of the sources cited, organized by type. I agree the article reads like it was written by a museum representative, but the solution to that is rewriting, not deleting. Nathan McKnight -- Aelffin (talk) 14:47, 1 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Newspapers:
 * 2.^ "JIMMY VAN BRAMER BRINGS MOVEABLE MUSEUM TO QUEENSBRIDGE FOR FAMILY DAY". Woodside Herald. 25-Jun-10. http://woodsideherald.com/uploads/Woodside_6_25_10.pdf. Retrieved 2010-12-03.
 * 5.^ "Fossilized Bones, Dinosaur Poo Are Hit in Park Slope". The Brooklyn Daily Eagle. December 4, 2009. http://www.brooklyneagle.com/categories/category.php?category_id=9&id=32312. Retrieved 2010-12-03.
 * 9.^ "Moveable Museum". Stuyvesant Town Events. http://www.stuytown.com/#/events. Retrieved 2010-12-03.
 * 10.^ "At Staten Island School, a Moving Way to Learn". SILive.com. 3-Oct-10. http://www.silive.com/northshore/index.ssf/2008/10/at_staten_island_school_a_movi.html. Retrieved 2010-12-03.
 * 21.^ "American Museum Of Natural History Visits Rockaway". The Wave. August 3, 2007. http://www.rockawave.com/news/2007-08-03/community/004.html. Retrieved 2011-04-15.
 * 22.^ "American Museum Of Natural History Visits Rockaway". The Wave. August 3, 2007. http://www.rockawave.com/news/2007-08-03/community/004.html. Retrieved 2011-04-15.
 * 23.^ "Fossilized Bones, Dinosaur Poo Are Hit in Park Slope". The Brooklyn Daily Eagle. December 4, 2009. http://www.brooklyneagle.com/categories/category.php?category_id=9&id=32312. Retrieved 2010-12-03.
 * Education community sources:
 * 3.^ "The Moveable Museum". Edwize.org. November 3, 2010. http://www.edwize.org/the-moveable-museum. Retrieved 2010-12-03.
 * 6.^ "American Museum of Natural History Moveable Museum Program “Discovering the Universe” visits P.S. 225". NYC Department of Education. http://schools.nyc.gov/SchoolPortals/21/K225/newsandinfo/News/amnhvisit.htm. Retrieved 2010-12-03.
 * 8.^ "Moveable Museum". National Lab Day. http://www.nationallabday.org/resources/all?filter%5Bprovided_by%5D=American+Museum+of+Natural+History. Retrieved 2010-12-03.
 * 11.^ "Dinosaurs, Moveable Museums, and Science!". United States Department of Education. 8-Nov-10. http://www.ed.gov/oese-news/dinosaurs-moveable-museums-and-science. Retrieved 2010-12-03.
 * 12.^ "AMERICAN MUSEUM OF NATURAL HISTORY BRINGS DINOSAURS "EXHIBIT-ON-WHEELS" TO LOCAL PRESCHOOLERS". Educational Alliance. http://www.edalliance.org/index.php?src=news&submenu=ArtGalleriesUpcoming&srctype=detail&category=Early%20Childhood&refno=72. Retrieved 2010-12-03.
 * 13.^ "AMNH Moveable at Family Fun Day". Family Health Resource Center & Patient Library. http://www.nyupatientlibrary.org/hassenfeld/news/6-30-08/amnh-moveable-museum-family-fun-day. Retrieved 2010-12-03.
 * 14.^ "M.O.N.H (sic) Moveable Museum". ColoriumLaboratorium. http://coloriumlaboratorium.com/m-o-n-h-moveable-museum. Retrieved 2010-12-03.
 * 19.^ "American Museum of Natural History Moveable Museum Program “Discovering the Universe” visits P.S. 225". NYC DOE Schools Portal News and Announcements. December 9, 2008. http://schools.nyc.gov/SchoolPortals/21/K225/newsandinfo/News/amnhvisit.htm. Retrieved 2011-04-15.
 * 20.^ "American Museum of Natural History Moveable Museum Program “Discovering the Universe” visits P.S. 225". NYC DOE Schools Portal News and Announcements. December 9, 2008. http://schools.nyc.gov/SchoolPortals/21/K225/newsandinfo/News/amnhvisit.htm. Retrieved 2011-04-15.
 * Museum Website:
 * 1.^ "American Museum of Natural History 2009 Annual Report". The American Museum of Natural History. http://www.amnh.org/about/AMNH_AR_2009.pdf. Retrieved 2010-12-03.
 * 4.^ "American Museum of Natural History 2009 Annual Report". The American Museum of Natural History. http://www.amnh.org/about/AMNH_AR_2009.pdf. Retrieved 2010-12-03.
 * 7.^ "Moveable Museums Make Trip to D.C. (video)". AMNH Youtube Channel. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0NZzEQ3xno. Retrieved 2010-12-03.
 * 15.^ "Paleontology of Dinosaurs (K-2)". American Museum of Natural History. http://www.amnh.org/education/school_groups/offering.php?id=194. Retrieved 2010-12-03.
 * 16.^ "Dinosaurs: Ancient Fossils, New Discoveries (3-8)". American Museum of Natural History. http://www.amnh.org/education/school_groups/offering.php?id=194. Retrieved 2010-12-03.
 * 17.^ "Anthropology: Structures & Culture". American Museum of Natural History. http://www.amnh.org/education/school_groups/offering.php?id=195. Retrieved 2010-12-03.
 * 18.^ "Astronomy: Discovering the Universe". American Museum of Natural History. http://www.amnh.org/education/school_groups/offering.php?id=196. Retrieved 2010-12-03.
 * However, I've already addressed this. the sources that are not AMNH published, are covering events, moveable museum visits, in community newspapers, as well as DOE announcements, which are primarily there to inform schools of this service. By extension, various penny-socials are notorious. ViniTheHat (talk) 16:40, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I understand that you don't think coverage of an event constitutes coverage of the program putting on that event, but you haven't established that Wikipedia policy makes that distinction. I don't understand how you're deriving your position from the text of WP:Note or other Wikipedia policies. I also have to admit I can't make heads or tails of the phrase "various penny-socials are notorious". Nathan McKnight -- Aelffin (talk) 19:23, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
 * However, I've already addressed this. the sources that are not AMNH published, are covering events, moveable museum visits, in community newspapers, as well as DOE announcements, which are primarily there to inform schools of this service. By extension, various penny-socials are notorious. ViniTheHat (talk) 16:40, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I understand that you don't think coverage of an event constitutes coverage of the program putting on that event, but you haven't established that Wikipedia policy makes that distinction. I don't understand how you're deriving your position from the text of WP:Note or other Wikipedia policies. I also have to admit I can't make heads or tails of the phrase "various penny-socials are notorious". Nathan McKnight -- Aelffin (talk) 19:23, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I understand that you don't think coverage of an event constitutes coverage of the program putting on that event, but you haven't established that Wikipedia policy makes that distinction. I don't understand how you're deriving your position from the text of WP:Note or other Wikipedia policies. I also have to admit I can't make heads or tails of the phrase "various penny-socials are notorious". Nathan McKnight -- Aelffin (talk) 19:23, 1 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of New York-related deletion discussions.  — I, Jethrobot drop me a line 18:43, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Museums and libraries-related deletion discussions.  — I, Jethrobot drop me a line 18:43, 1 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Merge to AMNH. Doesn't appear to be worthy of its own article but is a valid search term. Content could be boiled down and merged into AMNH article StarM 23:41, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I hate to point this out, but it's also not good to have the primary editor of an article be affiliated with the organization it is about. as in:http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:5pn1nMAyiPUJ:www.jacketflap.com/profile.asp%3Fmember%3DAelffin+nathan+mcknight+amnh&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a&source=www.google.com ViniTheHat (talk) 02:54, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of New York-related deletion discussions.  — • Gene93k (talk) 16:50, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
 * That's just poisoning the well. Has my editing been unduly lauditory? Have I written myself into the article? Is the article blatantly promotional? Has the article's content in any way violated WP:NPOV? If not, then I'd appreciate it if we can stick to the WP:Verifiable facts and to the matter of WP:Notability as established by WP:Reliable Sources. Whether this program rates as notable should be argued on policy, not ad hominem, and I think the policy is pretty clear. Nathan McKnight -- Aelffin (talk) 23:55, 2 July 2011 (UTC)


 * In the interests of full disclosure, I did once work for the Moveable Museum program and I do currently work for the American Museum of Natural History. For this reason, I am very careful to follow Wikipedia policy with respect to articles about my former employer and, for that matter, articles about all other subjects I find interesting because I am conscious of trying to avoid any appearance of conflict of interest. I have read WP:COI and I understand the risks associated with editing an article with which one has had a professional relationship, but as I've said, I feel my edits have been solidly WP:NPOV. As a matter of fact, I have discouraged other former Moveable Museum employees from adding promotional material to the article or editing it at all without having familiarity with Wikipedia policy, and my support for keeping this article is no different from my past support for keeping other articles about subjects with which I have no affiliation. I simply feel that our policy for inclusion should be interpreted broadly because Wikipedia is not a print encyclopedia. Please see Deletionism_and_inclusionism_in_Wikipedia for further details. Please also see WP:COI, particularly the part that says "Using COI allegations to harass an editor or to gain the upper hand in a content dispute is prohibited, and can result in a block or ban." I fully believe that your edits are done in good faith, and I hope you'll extend to me the same consideration. Nathan McKnight -- Aelffin (talk) 00:50, 3 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Merge to AMNH. Article is notable and valid as a search interest but not large enough to stand on its own.--Uriel ramirez (talk) 03:50, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep. I'd be okay with merging, but I feel the AMNH article is already getting a bit long, and including all notable aspects of its programming will almost certainly cause it to quickly become unwieldly. Nathan McKnight -- Aelffin (talk) 07:08, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Spartaz Humbug! 03:04, 9 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Merge with new page on Mobile exhibits on trucks/RVs. There is no reason Wikipedia should have an article about this program from AMNH. However, what's lacking is an article about mobile museums exhibits, which are important and are notable. And AMNH is a great example of this. See this blog post for more information: Mobile museums (on a truck): History and science delivered. The new article should be analogous to this: Virtual museum Wxidea (talk) 14:19, 9 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I have reworked the article. It still needs cleanup. No question, mobile museums on RVs is notable. New article -- Mobile_museums_(in_RVs) -- talks more generally about mobile exhibitions.Wxidea (talk) 14:35, 9 July 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.