Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Mystery of Tally-Ho Cottage


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep‎__EXPECTED_UNCONNECTED_PAGE__. Liz Read! Talk! 04:02, 3 September 2023 (UTC)

The Mystery of Tally-Ho Cottage

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

This has been repeatedly reverted to an unsourced plot-only article. Unable to find sources for this to meet WP:GNG. Redirect to Five Find-Outers is my recommendation. -MPGuy2824 (talk) 04:25, 19 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Literature-related deletion discussions. -MPGuy2824 (talk) 04:26, 19 August 2023 (UTC)
 * We have to improve the article by Adding citations and sources. If we don't find any citations or sources we can't just delete or redirect any article. We need to improve it. There are some other articles which don't have sources and citations but it has not been redirected or deleted. We can't just delete or redirect anything if citations are not available or added. DitorWiki (talk) 04:34, 19 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Please read OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. -MPGuy2824 (talk) 04:35, 19 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Redirect per nom. I can’t find any in depth coverage in reliable independent sources. Editors can’t just create articles in the hope that someone else will find some sources eventually. Mccapra (talk) 05:21, 19 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Redirect (or draftify) per nomination. The series article Five Find-Outers, and all of the articles for the books in that series, are in a poor state. None are properly sourced, with a Blyton Society link if you're lucky. In fact, most of the articles linked from Enid Blyton bibliography are unsourced, and would struggle to pass WP:NBOOK.
 * Blyton was the R. L. Stine of the early 20th. She churned out 762 books over 48 years (about 16 a year average), many of which were wildly popular then and still sell today. So the series are probably notable enough for their own articles, but it's tough to make a case under WP:NBOOK or even WP:GNG for all 762. I'd suggest a redirect of all of the Five Find-Outers articles, and an improvement of the series article. Wikishovel (talk) 06:19, 19 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Draftify or weak delete per WP:NBOOK and WP:Wikipedia is not Fandom. Give the author the chance to improve the article at least to Five Find-Outers level, maybe then it can pass although I doubt that FuzzyMagma (talk) 08:46, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources. Notability (books) says: "A book is presumed notable if it verifiably meets, through reliable sources, at least one of the following criteria:The book has been the subject of two or more non-trivial published works appearing in sources that are independent of the book itself. This can include published works in all forms, such as newspaper articles, other books, television documentaries, bestseller lists, and reviews. This excludes media re-prints of press releases, flap copy, or other publications where the author, its publisher, agent, or other self-interested parties advertise or speak about the book." Sources   The article notes: "A distinctive joy of literature is unexpectedly finding yourself in a character, or an outlook, an idea or person you instinctively identify with. For me, this happened first when I read The Mystery of Tally-Ho Cottage, when I was about eight or nine. The group’s leader is Frederick Algernon Trotterville. His initials form the word FAT. ... Even as a child, my natural shape resembled a potato. The idea that a smart-talking fatty could be a hero was terrifically appealing, perhaps the basis of the rest of my life. ... Body-shaming, hate speech, stereotyping – every offence a children’s book could commit. And yet it’s also marvellously plotted and absorbing to read even today."   The article notes: "The twelfth book, The Mystery of Tally-Ho Cottage is another fine tale, involving a stolen painting and its whereabouts. Goon's nephew Ern once again comes to visit, supposedly to help his Uncle, but inevitably he sides again with the Five. This time, he has a bigger role to play, and actually has four whole chapters almost to himself in the middle of the book, when he is given the job of shadowing the suspects."   The article notes: "Miss Enid Blyton is indeed a remarkable personality. The volume and variety of her production of children's books is almost incredible. The Mystery of Tally-Ho Cottage is the twelfth in her mystery series dealing with the further adventures of "the five find-outers" and their dog, and centring round a cottage town by the river. Besides mystery there is a strong and continuous element of fun in the story contributed largely by the steadily plodding Ern and the irrepressible Fatty. A healthy and enjoyable story."   The article notes: ""The Mystery of Tally-Ho Cottage by Enid Blyton (Methuen, 7/6) is a grand yarn which centres around a cottage down by the river. Two runaways, a stolen picture, a little white poodle, and the Five Fond-Outers and Dog on the job; these are the ingredients of this splendid yarn. In addition to a first-class mystery, there is also plenty of fun and hilarity." </li> <li> The article notes: "The auction also features the original typescript of Blyton's The Mystery of Tally-Ho Cottage, complete with the author's handwritten note, which is expected to fetch 300 to 500." </li> <li> The article notes: "The original typescript of Enid Blyton’s book The Mystery of Tally-Ho Cottage, expected to fetch £300 to £500, includes a handwritten note from the author, explaining that she did not write her books by hand, but liked to type them “straight out of my head”." </li> </ol>There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow The Mystery of Tally-Ho Cottage to pass Notability, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject". Cunard (talk) 21:38, 20 August 2023 (UTC) </li></ul>


 * Comment: I expanded and added sources to the article. Cunard (talk) 21:38, 20 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep because of the improvements made by Wikieditor Cunard. Darkfrog24 (talk) 22:35, 20 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment well done to Cunard for unearthing all of those and adding them in. However they are little more than passing mentions and certainly not in-depth reviews, or significant coverage, so I’m not changing my !vote. Mccapra (talk) 07:02, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

<ul><li>Comment: Here is another review I found about the subject:<ol> <li> Kirjastolehti is a professional magazine for public libraries published by the Finnish Library Association. The review notes that The Mystery of Tally-Ho Cottage was translated into Finnish by Sisko Pylkkänen. The translated book was published in 1965 and was given the Finnish-language title Metsästysmajan salaisuus. The review notes: "Tavanmukaista patenttijännitystä aitoon blytonilaiseen tyyliin. Peruukkeja ja valepukuja on tällä kertaa muillakin kuin nuorten etsivien erinomaisen älykkäällä johtajalla tuskinpa muuta uutta tutunnäköisten kansien sisällä." From Google Translate: "Usual patent tension in true Blytonian style. This time, there are wigs and disguises for other than the extremely intelligent leader of the young detectives, but there is hardly anything new inside the familiar covers."</li> </ol>Notability says, "'Significant coverage' addresses the topic directly and in detail, so that no original research is needed to extract the content". The book received significant coverage in Enid Blyton Society (377 words) and The Australian (103 words). These sources "addres[s] the topic directly and in detail, so that no original research is needed to extract the content". There is additional coverage in book reviews in Shipley Times and Express (63 words), the Morpeth Herald (64 words), and the Finnish Library Association's magazine Kirjastolehti (53 words). The Mystery of Tally-Ho Cottage was published in 1954. Many newspapers and magazines from that time period are not available online. That this book was able to garner this much critical coverage that could be found online despite being published 69 years ago strong contributes to notability:<ol><li>"Body-shaming, hate speech, stereotyping – every offence a children’s book could commit. And yet it’s also marvellously plotted and absorbing to read even today." (The Australian, 2023)</li><li>"Besides mystery there is a strong and continuous element of fun in the story contributed largely by the steadily plodding Ern and the irrepressible Fatty. A healthy and enjoyable story." (Shipley Times and Express, 1954)</li><li>"... these are the ingredients of this splendid yarn. In addition to a first-class mystery, there is also plenty of fun and hilarity." (Morpeth Herald, 1954)</li><li>"Usual patent tension in true Blytonian style. This time, there are wigs and disguises for other than the extremely intelligent leader of the young detectives, but there is hardly anything new inside the familiar covers." (Finnish Library Association's Kirjastolehti, 1965)</li><li>"The twelfth book, The Mystery of Tally-Ho Cottage is another fine tale, involving a stolen painting and its whereabouts." (Enid Blyton Society)</li></ol>Notability (books) also notes: "A book is presumed notable if it verifiably meets, through reliable sources, at least one of the following criteria: <li>The book's author is so historically significant that any of the author's written works may be considered notable. This does not simply mean that the book's author is notable by Wikipedia's standards; rather, the book's author is of exceptional significance and the author's life and body of written work would be a common subject of academic study.</li></ol>"It is very clear from this Google Scholar search for Enid Blyton that "the book's author is of exceptional significance and the author's life and body of written work [has been] a common subject of academic study" for many decades. The Wikipedia article for Enid Blyton says: "Enid Mary Blyton (11 August 1897 – 28 November 1968) was an English children's writer, whose books have been worldwide bestsellers since the 1930s, selling more than 600 million copies. Her books are still enormously popular and have been translated into ninety languages. ... She is the world's fourth most-translated author, behind Agatha Christie, Jules Verne and William Shakespeare with her books being translated into 90 languages." Among numerous other reasons, Blyton, the book's author, "is of exceptional significance" because she is the world's fourth-most translated author behind Agatha Christie, Jules Verne and William Shakespeare. Cunard (talk) 09:24, 23 August 2023 (UTC)</li></ul> Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 04:27, 26 August 2023 (UTC) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 05:34, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Keep per WP:HEY. I will also point out that books can meet WP:GNG and Cunard's sources demonstrate that as well. &mdash;siro&chi;o 06:35, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep per WP:HEY. Kudos to Cunard for providing the citations that clearly establish the book's notability.A. Randomdude0000 (talk) 03:40, 3 September 2023 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.