Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The National Society of Leadership and Success (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Nakon 03:21, 14 May 2015 (UTC)

The National Society of Leadership and Success
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Looking at the apparently very impressive reference list, it seems that every one of them is a press report about a very small local event. Any number of combination of insignificant local events added up together is not notability. The evidence for the size and scope of the organization is unclear. The BBB apparently regards it as a commercial organization. What it looks like to me is promotionalism.  DGG ( talk ) 00:23, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 03:09, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of New Jersey-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 03:09, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Education-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 03:09, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Organizations-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 03:09, 15 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Keep: I've just rewritten the article, since you're right - the article was written like an advertisement. With the promotional material gone, I think that there is enough third party coverage for the article to be saved. Orthogonal1 (talk) 08:59, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
 * User:Orthogonal1, do any of the articles describe the society itself, beyond describing specific charitable acts undertaken?E.M.Gregory (talk) 01:19, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Turning up some sources, beyond charitable events: ,,, , not all sources are positive , also, they party , I'll try to make time to get back and digest these.E.M.Gregory (talk) 01:27, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Natg 19 (talk) 23:35, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete. Good college try, but the articles listed above by E.M. Gregory are: (1) Byron McCauley, only an opinion contributor to Huffington Post, whose publisher, Arianna Huffington, was a speaker at one of this organization's events and both of whom may be mixed up somehow in the org, (2) Pilot Mountain News, an article about the local chapter and not about the national organization, (3) an Azusa Pacific University press release (not a Reliable source), (4) a press release posted on TapIntoNet and (5) Northern Light, again a bit about a local chapter and not the national org. This is a P.R. push on behalf of an org that may be Notable in the future but is not now. BeenAroundAWhile (talk) 04:40, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm not convinced that just because some of the articles only relate to a local chapter that they do not contribute to notability. The organisation's primary focus appears to be their local chapters, so it is only natural that most of their activities would be on a local level. Orthogonal1 (talk) 23:24, 25 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Keep: My name is Debra Woolley and I am the Director of Communications for The National Society of Leadership and Success. I have edited our page to address the above mentioned concerns and have added additional academic sources to confirm their authenticity.  98.109.220.63 (talk) 13:22, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the Article Rescue Squadron's list of content for rescue consideration.
 * Additional clarification The Better Business Bureau (BBB) lists this organization as a ‘club’ and ‘civic and social organization’ (NAICS: 813410) (see reference list). The BBB has accredited The National Society of Leadership and Success since June 25th 2014 based on the BBB's Standards for Trust - a comprehensive set of policies, procedures, and best practices on how businesses should treat consumers and clients in a fair and honest manner & the BBB Code of Business Practices (BBB Accreditation Standards) - http://www.bbb.org/new-jersey/for-businesses/about-bbb-accreditation/bbb-code-of-business-practices-bbb-accreditation-standards/ Nslssap (talk) 13:38, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
 * The organization is notable (meets the criteria outlined by wiki as ‘The scope of their activities is national or international in scale’ for non-commercial organizations -https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability_%28organizations_and_companies%29#Non-commercial_organizations Nslssap (talk) 13:35, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Hi Debra! It's great to have someone from the society here to discuss the deletion request. Unfortunately, I've reverted your edit because it doesn't appear to meet WP:NPOV. For example, "gain exposure to global leaders and change makers" and "people have untapped potential because they do not follow through on their dreams" is more like something NSLS would say about itself than something that would go in an objective encyclopedia. Also, this isn't related to the deletion debate, but when you mentioned that NSLS gives scholarships to its members, are there any statistics on what percentage of NSLS members receive them? Orthogonal1 (talk) 09:08, 29 April 2015 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America1000 02:32, 30 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Hi Orthogonal1, thanks so much for contacting me. Per your note above, I have gone back in and viewed the additional changes you made. I originally revised the page in hopes that the Wiki community would find it more suitable. Looking back on the original article I see where you are coming from and agree that those two statements you quoted above don’t appear to meet WP:NPOV. However, The Society program develops leadership skills in our members and requires them to form peer groups so as to hold one another accountable for leadership goals. Since you seem to have a good grasp on this, any/all suggestions you have in regards to communicating this point would be greatly appreciated.
 * We want to display the facts and use as many independent sources as possible. Which is why a large part of the revisions I made were to include published academic sources such as the two following:
 * Komives, Susan R.; Julie E. Owen; Craig Slack; Wendy Wagner; National Clearinghouse of Leadership Programs (NCLP) (2011). "13". The handbook for student leadership development (2nd ed. ed.). San Francisco: Jossey-Bass. p. 294. ISBN 978-0-470-53107-5.
 * Combs, Patrick (2007). "13". Major in success : make college easier, fire up your dreams, and get a great job! (5th ed. ed.). Berkeley, CA: Ten Speed Press. pp. 79–82. ISBN 978-1-58008-865-7.


 * If possible I would like to still use these sources as they follow the steps and guidelines provided in WP:BEFORE & WP:AFDFORMAT.
 * I also would like to note that while other organizations similar to ours cite their own company website on their Wikipedia articles, we have worked hard to use only outside sources and avoid submitting anything published by The National Society of Leadership and Success. Therefore any guidance you or other editors can provide in helping save this article is much appreciated. Thanks again, Orthogonal1. To answer your question regarding scholarships and awards- In the 2014 calendar year, the Society received 1,644 applications and awarded a total of $150,000.00 to 68 members. Awards ranged from $500 to $10,000. (https://www.societyleadership.org/memberinfo/awards/scholarships-awards) Our winners are posted on our website, and you will see specific award winners mentioned in articles, but there is not a third party source that verifies the number of applicants. Do you have any suggestions on how to display this information on the Wiki? Nslssap (talk) 11:55, 30 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your response! Also, thanks for reminding me about WP:AFDFORMAT; neutrality doesn't seem to be related to the debate, so I'll respond on the talk page later tonight. I think it is obvious by now that NSLS is notable, and thus the article should be kept, and the above sources that you mentioned simply reaffirm this. Orthogonal1 (talk) 21:44, 30 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Not quite. What seems obvious is that it is sucessful in obtaining coverage for its press releases. erkeely Ten Speed Press isn ot anacademic source, and a mere listing in a handbook that lists student organizations is not a substantial reference, academic or otherwise.  DGG ( talk ) 04:57, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.