Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Shape of Water (novel)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Early close per WP:SNOW and WP:NOTCLEANUP. (non-admin closure) VQuakr (talk) 07:22, 8 March 2018 (UTC)

The Shape of Water (novel)

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This year will mark the article's eleventh anniversary of being completely unsourced, and a quick Google search shows that not much could be found to change that. On top of that, 90% of the article is a plot summary, the rest just the introduction (of which nothing re-appears in the body). The author might be notable but that does not make the book notable. Taking this into account, the book shows neither a) sources, b) content, or c) notability, and should be deleted. If reliable, in-depth retrospective reviews suddenly pop up, the article can be recreated, but the present shape is just not acceptable in an encyclopedia. Lordtobi  ( &#9993; ) 15:08, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Literature-related deletion discussions.  MT Train Talk 15:11, 6 March 2018 (UTC)


 * Comment: Comparing Google Books search results with both the English-language and the Italian-language title, the latter seems to have better results. I've notified WikiProject Italy at WT:ITALY to see what editors fluent in Italian can determine from the results. Erik (talk &#124; contrib) (ping me) 15:24, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
 * If this is the case and if the article was kept, the next logical step would be to move it to the native title per WP:COMMONNAME. Lordtobi  ( &#9993; ) 15:28, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
 * I agree. Erik (talk &#124; contrib) (ping me) 15:30, 6 March 2018 (UTC) I found a couple of sources about the novel using its English-language title, so I would support that per WP:ENGLISH. I've created a redirect for the Italian title. Erik (talk &#124; contrib) (ping me) 15:48, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Comment Is this the book the movie is based on? Nothing in the article says so (I've never seen the movie so I can't compare the plots). Whether or not it's the source material for the book, this is exceedingly difficult to search for as most hits are for the film. And I'm surprised there are not more sources out there for a 24-year-old book that (possibly) spawned a successful movie. Even some fairly basic sources, a few reviews, some sort of profile of the novel based on interest in the movie -- that would go a long way towards notability. Perhaps there are some useful sources in Italian, but failing that, this could end up being a strange delete. The way the article is written is a problem and would need serious editing and some more contextual, non-plot text -- if sources are found.  freshacconci  (✉) 15:34, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
 * This book is not related to the movie.192.160.216.52 (talk) 15:36, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks. In that case, if the article were to be kept, we'd need to hatnote this because it's confusing. The automatic assumption is that this would be the source of the movie -- that's what I thought. Using the Italian title would help as well.  freshacconci  (✉) 15:39, 6 March 2018 (UTC)


 * Keep -- There are plenty of reviews in English even, but many more in Italian. Perhaps it's hard to find them via the internet because the book was published in 1995 but the book easily passes WP:NBOOK criterion one, therefore.  For instance, see what Publisher's Weekly has to say: "When he introduced Montalbano in The Shape of Water in 1994, Camilleri was 69 years old. The book established the author’s international reputation."  The article goes on to discuss the circumstances of Camilleri's writing of the book.  Also the book has been written about in books, like see e.g. this one.  The guy is like John Grisham in Italy, which also speaks to the book's notability.192.160.216.52 (talk) 15:36, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep per the Publishers Weekly book review here and this academic article and extensive coverage in the author's biography. I support keeping its English-language title as well. Erik (talk &#124; contrib) (ping me) 15:48, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep plus note If you search "'The Shape of Water' Camilleri" you get more useful hits than "The Shape of Water novel". A quick googling finds a few good hits, and with the book listed by 192.160.216.52 above, I'd say this passes WP:GNG. On its own, being adapted for a BBC series is not notable per WP:NOTINHERITED, but given the handful of English source and probably more in Italian, that goes a long way towards establishing the impact of the novel.  freshacconci  (✉) 15:48, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep. Per WP:NEXIST, we evaluate articles on their potential, given the existence of sources, not on the current state of sourcing in the article.  This is the first in a long and extremely popular book series.  In addition to the sources mentioned above, and the extensive coverage of the series in both English and Italian, substantial English language content about this book includes The New York Times ("savagely funny police procedural"), London Review of Books , Los Angeles Review of Books .  Notability is very clear and the article can be improved to demonstrate it. --Arxiloxos (talk) 18:07, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep per "Keep" votes above. The author is unquestionably notable and his books are bestsellers, even if not specifically in the English-speaking world. &mdash;Roman Spinner (talk)(contribs) 21:22, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep, meets WP:NBOOK and WP:GNG, in addition to pw review, found the following: New York Times - "Crime" (short but sweet:)), Booklist, and Kirkus - "The Shape of Water: From the Critics" (nooo, not tradies!!!:)), London Review of Books - "The Yellow and the Black" (need a subscription). Coolabahapple (talk) 22:14, 6 March 2018 (UTC)


 * Keep : if deleted then all the Template:Inspector Montalbano have to be deleted ! --AXRL (talk) 00:23, 7 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep and rename this book and every other book in the series to their original Italian titles. JE98 (talk) 05:38, 7 March 2018 (UTC)
 * In fact, I just started a move discussion for it: Talk:The Shape of Water (novel). JE98 (talk) 06:09, 7 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep. Sufficient number of book reviews in English and many more in Italian. The book passes WP:NBOOK. The highly respected Publisher Weekly indicates: "The book established the author’s international reputation." desmay (talk) 16:12, 7 March 2018 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.