Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Songs of My Mother


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. Withdrawn nomination with no outstanding delete !votes. (non-admin closure) Tim Song (talk) 19:47, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

The Songs of My Mother

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Fails WP:NALBUM Never charted anywhere, only thing listed is the track listing. No reviews, no critical reception.  Pop Music Buff talk  18:24, 19 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment - Per WP:NALBUMS, "In general, if the musician or ensemble that recorded an album is considered notable, then officially released albums may have sufficient notability to have individual articles on Wikipedia." If this album really received no reviews, then redirect to Vitas may be appropriate nonetheless.  But since this is a Russian album, what has been done to check Russian sources to confirm that there have been no reviews in reliable Russian sources?  Rlendog (talk) 15:50, 22 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Comment WP:NALBUMS also states "All articles on albums, singles or songs must meet the basic criteria at the notability guidelines, with significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject." There has not been "significant coverage" of this album (or any of his other albums). And nothing is being done about RS for Russian music, which makes this fail even more. Unless more RS and information is added, this page (along with all the other albums I marked for deletion) will fail.  Pop Music Buff talk  16:06, 22 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Comment - I am not sure what the statement "nothing is being done about RS for Russian music" means. If there is significant coverage in Russian sources, even if those sources are not referenced in the article yet, then the article meets WP:N and WP:NALBUMS and should be kept. Rlendog (talk) 21:45, 23 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep. In a nutshell:
 * The Songs of My Mother is a notable album by a notable artist
 * I am currently working on expanding and improving this article and others on Vitas albums
 * Deleting this article would mean the loss of significant information which is likely to be sought by Wikipedia readers; and moving the information from the individual album articles into the Vitas Discography section is not a suitable solution because this would make the section overlong and the article appear cluttered.

I don't think the notability of Vitas himself is in question: he is a major star in Russia, China and several other countries and meets several of the WP:NM criteria.

The subject is inherently notable as a major album from a notable artist, and since it includes cover versions of already popular songs, some of the songs may be also be individually notable. Several songs from this album also featured in the setlist for Vitas' major international tour of the same name.

According to Vitas' website: he released nine albums ("Philosophy of Miracle", "Smile!", "Mother", "The Songs of My Mother", "Kiss As Long As Eternity", "Return Home. Part 1", "Return Home. Part 2", "XX-th Century HITS", "Light Of A New Day") which were entered into the Top Three most popular albums in 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007 and 2008. (according to the official sales) - he released two singles ("Opera # 2" and "Goodbye"). According to the official sales results, the single "Opera # 2" was awarded a Russian Prize (established by the producers of phonograms "Record") as the bestselling single of 2001, 2002 and 2003

I am surprised by the claim that this album "Never charted anywhere". It's generally much more difficult to prove a negative than a positive, particularly in a case like this, when many foreign music charts are not widely published online, and sources such as the one quoted above are unclear about specifics. It would be more accurate to say that we currently have no information as to whether this album has charted anywhere. If I find any information regarding chart positions in any country, I will add this to the article.

I'm sure you will understand that attempting to research a subject when the vast majority of relevant information is in languages I cannot read will not produce results comparable to research of subjects which are written about mostly in English, but Wikipedia is and should be an important reference source for others to locate information about non-English-language subjects. Deleting such articles without very strong reasons for doing so could be construed by some as dangerously close to racism.

The WP:ALBUM section states:

In general, if the musician or ensemble that recorded an album is considered notable, then officially released albums may have sufficient notability to have individual articles on Wikipedia.

Album articles with little more than a track listing may be more appropriately merged into the artist's main article or discography article, space permitting.

I think the second guideline quoted above is intended for cases where an artist has a very short discography and where no existing articles on their individual albums include notable information beyond tracklisting, year of release etc.

Vitas' discography on Wikipedia is currently a section within the main Vitas article. He has released 9 studio albums, in addition to a number of singles, compilations and DVDs, so I do not consider merging full track listings into the main article to be practical. I intend to expand on the existing Vitas album articles, this one included, as well as writing articles for those albums which do not already have their own, so we're going to end up with way too much information to include comfortably in the main article. I should also add that article for the album Mama already includes songwriting credits - significant information beyond a mere tracklist.

It is perfectly normal for major releases by notable artists to have their own Wikipedia articles, and this is as it should be. It would be confusing and somewhat ridiculous to have a Discography detailing tracklistings for the albums deemed less "notable" with entries for more notable albums linking to separate articles. What we have here is information on a notable subject for which interested readers are likely to search Wikipedia: it is in the right place and I believe (please correct me if I'm wrong) currently the only webpage anywhere which presents the tracklisting in the original Russian and in English on the same page. Contains Mild Peril (talk) 11:15, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Keep and close discussion  Pop Music Buff talk  17:34, 26 September 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.