Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Timothy Plan


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus.  Sandstein  21:05, 11 December 2015 (UTC)

The Timothy Plan

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No evidence whatever of notability. The article has existed for well over nine years, and as far as I can see the only thing there has ever been that could be regarded as an independent source has been one newspaper report which gave it a three-sentence mention. (Article tagged for sources for more than three and a half years, to no avail. PROD removed by the creator of the article, without any explanation.) The editor who uses the pseudonym "JamesBWatson" (talk) 17:10, 19 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Comment Found at least one independent article --SenatorJesseHelms (talk) 19:23, 19 November 2015 (UTC)
 * That is a page on the website of a campaigning organisation with the stated purpose of promoting organisations which it approves of, such as the Timothy Plan. The Timothy Plan is given a few sentences in a page covering other companies. It is neither a reliable source nor substantial coverage, and it is also questionable whether you are right in calling it "independent", in view of the avowed purpose of promotion of organisations. The editor who uses the pseudonym "JamesBWatson" (talk) 11:20, 20 November 2015 (UTC)
 * I referred to this an independent as their coverage of The Timothy Plan is obviously negative. They even have a comic mocking the idea of "Pro Life" investing. I am actually not in favor of keeping this article, but I thought this was worth mentioning since it is an independent source. Please WP:AGF. --SenatorJesseHelms (talk) 18:28, 20 November 2015 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. --  Ascii002  ( talk  ·  contribs  ·  guestbook ) 09:09, 20 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Organizations-related deletion discussions. --  Ascii002  ( talk  ·  contribs  ·  guestbook ) 09:09, 20 November 2015 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Delete for now as my searches at News, Books, browsers and Highbeam actually found enough coverage at first that a better article seemed likely but finished the searches, there's nothing exactly for obvious improvement so this is a WP:TNT deletion at best. SwisterTwister   talk  08:04, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America1000 10:26, 26 November 2015 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America1000 00:46, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
 * As this has now been relisted twice, notifying users who have asked me to alert them where there has been low traffic and they can help for a better consensus:, and .  SwisterTwister   talk  01:02, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Thank you for notifying me, . Cunard (talk) 07:18, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, thank you . --MurderByDeletionism"bang!" 08:35, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Companies-related deletion discussions. North America1000 01:04, 3 December 2015 (UTC)


 * Delete. The only reason I would hesitate is the statement that two of their funds are   traded on the NYSE, but   ETF's are traded on NYSE Arca, which is a subsidiary exchange and does not imply notability.  DGG ( talk ) 06:42, 3 December 2015 (UTC)

Keep per the significant coverage in reliable sources.  The article notes: "Mutual fund families like The Timothy Plan or Amana Mutual Funds Trust build investment options around religious convictions, empowering investors to put their money where their faith is. ... The Timothy Plan has attracted mainly Protestant and Catholic investors to its funds, which are designed around the company's conservative Christian beliefs. Although personal faith clearly influences the The Timothy Plan (its website includes the testimony of the company's founder and Ally's father, Arthur Ally), its faith-based funds and socially responsible investing are still built around the same financial fundamentals as other funds.  ...  The Timothy Plan promises to avoid companies that are contrary to Judeo-Christian principles, most notably those involved in abortion, pornography, alcohol, tobacco and gambling. As its moral screening statement explains, 'Timothy Plan is committed to maintaining portfolios that are not actively contributing to the moral decline of our society.'" <li> The article notes: "First up, the Timothy funds. There are, according to Morningstar, 23 of them, from the Timothy Plan company. ... I didn't examine all 23 funds, but I did focus on two. Its Timothy Plan Large/Mid-Cap Growth fund, invested in the likes of Tiffany (NYSE: TIF), Legg Mason (NYSE: LM), and Nokia (NYSE: NOK), has underperformed the S&P 500 in every year since its inception in 2000. The fund is relatively focused, though, with fewer than 60 holdings. That can be effective when the holdings perform well. The expense ratio, at 1.53%, though, is on the steep side. ...  On the other hand, the Timothy Plan Large/Mid-Cap Value fund sported better results, such as a five-year average annual return of almost 13% that topped the S&P 500. Its top holdings recently included ExxonMobil (NYSE: XOM) and First Data (NYSE: FDC) . It's interesting that First Data, which is very involved in the credit card industry, wasn't shunned. One could argue that credit card debt is harming American families as much as many other frowned-upon activities."</li> <li> The article notes: "One company that refuses to own Starbucks is the granddaddy of evangelical investment funds, The Timothy Plan, which has about $700 million under management. (Catholics have the Ave Maria Fund, which has about $1 billion.) The Timothy Plan founder Art Ally has long been a thorn in the side of Guidestone and other investment groups that refuse to tightly screen their investments."</li> <li> The article notes: "Arthur Ally, founder and president of the Timothy Plan, a family of funds that promotes itself as “America’s first pro-life, pro-family, biblically-based mutual fund group,” said faith-based investing is clearly not for everyone. “We are here for a niche,” he said. “The first half of our life was a struggle because people were not accustomed to matching their values with the way they invest their money. But now we have nearly $700 million in assets and about 30,000 shareholders. We don’t manage a gazillion dollars ... but we’re growing.” Ally, a former Shearson Lehman Brothers vice president, established the Timothy Plan in 1994 to address an investment need for the retirement plans of pastors of independent churches. But that mission has greatly expanded and today the plan includes 12 funds."</li> <li> The article notes: "he Timothy Plan has been featured in Christianity Today and World magazine, which called it the 'granddaddy of evangelical investment funds.' The mutual fund company, which has a portfolio of about $700 million, avoids investing in companies that it deems contrary to Scripture. For instance, it declines to invest in Starbucks because of the company's stance on gay rights."</li> <li> The article notes: "Finally, the Timothy Plan funds are run according to principles of conservative evangelical Christianity, with many of these justified by specific Bible verses. The largest of the family's 11 funds, Timothy Plan Large/Mid-Cap Value TLVAX, has about $100 million in assets; the newest, Timothy Israel Common Values TPAIX, was launched in October 2011 to support Israel, a cause near and dear to many conservative Christians. The Timothy Plan was founded by Arthur Ally because he considered mainstream SRI funds to be based on 'New Age' principles not compatible with an evangelical Christian worldview. (You can read more about it here.) According to the Timothy Plan website, the funds shun companies that are 'actively contributing to the moral decline of our society,' including those involved with alcohol, tobacco, gambling, pornography, and abortion, as well as those perceived as supporting anti-family entertainment or alternative lifestyles. The firm's 'Hall of Shame' lists many of the prominent companies that Timothy Plan funds won't invest in."</li> <li> The article notes: "The Timothy Plan, a mutual fund for evangelical Christians, was opened in April 1994. The $11-million fund won't invest in companies that make money from what its founders call sinning."</li> <li> The article notes: "The Timothy Plan funds, which boosted its roster of funds geared for Evangelical Christians from four to eight last fall, screens out companies involved in production of alcohol, tobacco or casino gambling, the usual gamut for religion-based funds. But the Orlando-based company also screens out companies involved in abortion and pornography, as well as firms that offer benefits to unmarried partners of employees."</li> <li> The article notes: "But the Timothy Plan Fund, a conservative Christian fund, won't invest in Johnson & Johnson, which makes contraceptives and donates to Planned Parenthood, and it does invest in Kellstrom, an aerospace and defense equipment company. The Timothy Plan also closely eyes a company's employee benefits policy and corporate giving policy. Companies that provide same-sex partner benefits, such as Disney, Reuters and Knight Ridder, are out. Those that donate to Planned Parenthood, which provides abortion services, are out. Fruit of the Loom is off the list because it advertises in Penthouse. American Home Products, which is one of Amana Funds' biggest holdings, gets screened out at Timothy because it manufactures pills that can be used as emergency contraceptives."</li> <li> The article notes: "The Timothy Plan, which is affiliated with the Florida brokerage firm Raymond James & Associates, excludes stocks of companies involved in these areas, as well as other companies whose corporate practices 'could be found offensive to basic Judeo-Christian value,' according to the fund's prospectus. While the Timothy Plan's moral performance may be laudable, its financial performance has been less than heavenly. Shares of the fund lost 10.5 percent of their value in 1998, while the S&P 500 Index soared 28.6 percent. Over three years, the Timothy Plan has averaged a mere 2 percent return, according to Morningstar Inc."</li> <li> The article notes: "The $28 million Timothy Plan, which in 1994 started as a fund that invests in smaller companies, launched three new funds in July. ... The Timothy Plan screens out about 400 firms from roughly 8,000 publicly traded U.S. companies, or about 5 percent of the field. Among enterprises the fund avoids is Walt Disney Company, which many evangelicals believe has promoted an anti family agenda through its movie subsidiaries and its policies toward homosexual partners of employees (CT, Oct. 6, 1997, p. 84)."</li> <li> The article notes: "The Timothy Plan Funds, a biblically-based family of nine funds in Orlando, Fla., with $440 million in assets, avoids companies that deal with abortion, pornography, alcohol, tobacco, and gaming, along with firms supporting non-married lifestyles. Art Ally, president, teaches biblical stewardship to financial advisors and has created a nine-hour seminar on the subject."</li> </ol>There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow the Timothy Plan to pass Notability, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject". Cunard (talk) 07:18, 3 December 2015 (UTC) </li></ul>
 * Comment Shouldn't the creator of the article be notified?


 * Also, if this article is written in a NPOV, I'd believe it would be highly helpful to the general public seeing as how responsible investing is becoming much more visible. --<i style="color:#B00000; font-family:Casual;">MurderByDeletionism</i><sup style="color:black;">"bang!" 08:12, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
 * <small class="delsort-notice">Note: This debate has been included in the list of Business-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 02:17, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
 * <small class="delsort-notice">Note: This debate has been included in the list of Conservatism-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 02:17, 4 December 2015 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.