Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Truth in Muhammad


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Despite the difficulty we have in working with mostly non-English sources about complicated aspects of Islamic theology, consensus here is that this concept does not meet the requirements for a (new) article of its own. There's disagreement about whether to redirect anywhere, but that can be editorially resolved by somebody creating an appropriate redirect.  Sandstein  18:33, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

The Truth in Muhammad

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I can't find any reliable source about this concept. Google search returns nothing. Also, the source cited in the article does not mention Muhammad at all.  Vanjagenije  (talk)  19:58, 28 November 2016 (UTC) I wrote about a theory in Islamic philosophy which is not translated to ebglish by writers, the english source it about trinity.
 * Delete I was actually about to tag with a notability tag and our edits crossed. Not sure what the Arabic source says, but I can't find English language sources for this term. There might be a better name for it that the creator is not aware of in English because they don't seem to have that great of a grasp of the language in the article. That being said, until sources are shown demonstrating that this concept is notable and isn't WP:OR, the article should be deleted. TonyBallioni (talk) 20:03, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Islam-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 21:11, 28 November 2016 (UTC)


 * Delete If the content is sourced it should probably be merged into the article on Muhammad  Haqiqa. There does not seem to be enough in depth coverage by multiple reliable sources to meet the requirements for a separate article. --Crystallizedcarbon (talk) 21:15, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Based on the current sources I believe notability is not met, but since I have no knowledge on the subject and I do not speak arabic I can't be sure that there aren't other sources, so based on comments bellow I prefer to withdraw my recommendation to delete.--Crystallizedcarbon (talk) 10:45, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

Don't delete article is about a philisophical Islamic theory so all its sources it with arabic language, this article should not be deleted.--Bilal philosopher (talk) 21:37, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Redirect to Haqiqa. The article is referring, I think, to the Sufi concept of truth, for which the Arabic/Persian/Urdu word is حقيقة/حقیقت (haqeeqat or haqiqa or even hakekat). For alternative languages, the page links to ar:الحقيقة المحمدية, which is a mess, but which is clearly about the same concept. Smmurphy(Talk) 21:50, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure if this is the correct use of redirects, as "The Truth in Muhammad" isn't a likely search term for a concept within Sufism, so perhaps it should actually be deleted. In any case, I hope will be happy to see much of the ideas of this article already at the Haqiqa page.Smmurphy(Talk) 22:23, 28 November 2016 (UTC)

yeah al haqiqa almohammadiah is a sufi concept but is defferent from al haqiqa, al haqiqa or tariqa or shriâa are maqam مقام ، but الحقيقة المحمدية is about the nomenon soul of our prophet Muhammad slm , like the divinity of Christ in christianity , dont redirect it ,you can change title to Al-haqiqa Al-Muhammadia .. --Bilal philosopher (talk) 11:24, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Redirect to Haqiqa Ibn Arabi per Smmurphy. This seems to be what the article is trying to get at. I've struck my delete !vote above. TonyBallioni (talk) 21:59, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
 * I see what you are saying. The title should probably be, "Al-Haqiqa al-Muhammadiyya" or "Al-Haqiqat al-Muhammadiyya". The whole thing, then, is closely related to Nūr (Islam) (in particular, the third paragraph of Nūr_(Islam)). There is also a page for the Alevi concept, Haqq–Muhammad–Ali, also related. But maybe it should have its own page., you might have a better article if you use those titles as search terms in google books and expand the article. Smmurphy(Talk) 15:03, 29 November 2016 (UTC)


 * I'm sorry, I don't understand exactly what you are saying. I think we agree about the name of the topic you intended to write about. In English, that topic is referred to by an Anglicization of the Arabic, either as "Al-Haqiqa al-Muhammadiyya" or "Al-Haqiqat al-Muhammadiyya". "The Truth in Muhammad" or "The Reality in Muhammad" are not as correct, in my opinion. They are literal translations and occasionally used, but would not be as easily recognized as referring to this concept. The current sources in the article are not very good, and the text of the article is poorly written. Of the sources, Kitab ta'rifat by Al-Jurjani is a primary source and doesn't really work, and the other three are websites, one of which is not about the subject and the other two of which are not reliable. To improve the article, I recommend using sources from books which are published by reputable publishers, see or . I think the foundational source in modern times on the subject seems to be Chodkiewicz 1993, particularly pages 60-73.
 * My current !vote is redirect to Ibn Arabi or weak keep and rename "Al-Haqiqat al-Muhammadiyya" . Smmurphy(Talk) 20:00, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Given the lack of progress on the article, I tend to agree that there is nothing to keep.Smmurphy(Talk) 15:08, 4 December 2016 (UTC)


 * Strong delete I would call this article a violation of WP:OR, but it doesn't even seem substantial enough to be considered research at all; it's more likely a WP:NOTADVERTISING issue. Of the sources, one is to a Christian apologetics website and thus is irrelevant. Two are to the website of an organization obviously trying to make a name for itself, especially given the arguments by the article's creator here: the website's name is literally "the Muhammadan Reality" and this appears like an attempt to promote their site via Wikipedia. The last source is an unqualified citation of the dictionary Jurjani Definitions with no page number, edition or any information at all, thus there's no way to independently verify the citation. This should be an open and shut case. MezzoMezzo (talk) 03:30, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Comment. In any renaming case, the title should not start with "The" or "Al-" per WP:THE. Also, since this is a concept, "reality" or "haqiqat" should not be capitalised. Personally, I'd !vote for a weak delete per WP:TNT due to the original research. --HyperGaruda (talk) 09:06, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Strong Delete Fails WP:NOTSYNTH, WP:ORIGINAL big time. These kinds of attempts at advocating propaganda should not be allowed...Rameshnta909 (talk) 12:04, 5 December 2016 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.