Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Varsitarian (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. I'd recommend Howard puts his sandbox version into the article ASAP. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  13:18, 27 November 2012 (UTC)

The Varsitarian
AfDs for this article: 
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University student publications are rarely notable, and this case is not an exception. The article is promotional and self-serving, and the references are primary. Drmies (talk) 02:29, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Easy keep. This would've been tougher if this was nominated before October but thanks to the recent controversy concerning calling other universities' teachers as "lemons and cowards", possible references multiplied overnight ever since that story broke. It also had a major part in making ROTC optional rather than compulsory for male students nationwide so that's also quite an achievement. – H T  D  04:02, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Interesting controversy--though I am not convinced that an article in the Rappler alone establishes its notability. And the matter of the article remains: it reads like a combination of a directory and a puff piece. Maybe cleanup needs to be done first. Drmies (talk) 04:34, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Rappler passes WP:RS. Anyway, here are some more references on the controversy: Philippine Daily Inquirer and GMA News. And on other issues: Although I do strongly agree the article is really bad now. I might even allow this to be deleted so there can be a fresh start, and possibly a DYK for second time after six years. Talk about gaming the system, lol – H  T  D  04:40, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh, game away my friend: if the article is improved as a result (and you convince editors in this discussion) we're all winners. I'm not yet convinced, nor is Andrew, below, apparently. Good luck, Drmies (talk) 15:13, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Sure. I'd want this to be deleted so I can have a fresh start. The Google News search came up with several references, not just on the controversy. Get this deleted quickly so can I build a new one, so I can DYK this, again. It seems that the article has been taken over by people from the school paper per se, so it is far from neutral. – H T  D  15:38, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Hmmm a clean start is not an option, I'm afraid. If it is deleted, of course, you can have your clean start in the end anyway, but this can't be speedily deleted, no. Drmies (talk) 17:51, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I dunno what's the point though of waiting for the AFD to end so I can create a new one from scratch with better references, aside from a Main Page appearance. As the new article would be completely different from the deleted one it can't just be speedily deleted upon recreation; a new AFD can be done, too, but with the sources found at the Google News search I linked above, I dunno how an AFD can prosper with at least 10 non trivial references...
 * A good option would be to start working on a copy in your userspace or sandbox, then when you've created a good version of the article, cut and paste into the current entry. There is nothing wrong with editing the article to meet notability guidelines, even if the lion's share of the work is done by yourself in your own userspace. That can sometimes be a valuable way to create something without worrying about other users or AfD deadlines. It'd still have to meet notability, but you'd have more time and elbow room to work. Just be aware that journals and such are subject to WP:ONEEVENT, so this might be a good alternative. In any case, I suggest working on it now and then cutting and pasting into the main article before AfD. That way if the new version doesn't pass notability guidelines, it'd avoid another AfD week.Tokyogirl79 (talk) 17:10, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I could very well replace the entire article now with the article from my sandbox. – H T  D  21:45, 21 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Delete I'm not at all convinced that the controversy raises this one above the bar, I'm afraid. Andrew Lenahan -  St ar bli nd  15:02, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete per above. --Sue Rangell ✍ ✉ 21:05, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Notice: Once the AFD is resolved (keep or delete), I'm planning to replace with a new article found at User:Howard the Duck/Sandbox. I don't wanna undergo a second AFD for that one (as this will be the case) so if you guys still see something wrong with the article on sandbox, do it now here. – H T  D  02:46, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep. How is one of the oldest student newspapers in the country from Asia's oldest university not notable? Lots of small Perez hilton type publications that make their way to WP, why single out academic, more scholarly ones? --RioHondo (talk) 15:24, 22 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Philippines-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 13:04, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Literature-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 13:04, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Schools-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 13:04, 21 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Keep Per WP:NNEWSPAPER #1: "The periodical has made significant impact in its field or other area, such as higher education". I believe it is "significant" due to what RioHondo said, "one of the oldest student newspapers in the country from Asia's oldest university". The University was established about the same time as Harvard University, whose student run newspaper is The Harvard Crimson. The two papers seem comparable, but sourcing is more difficult due to language and other barriers (WP:SYSTEMIC). -- Green Cardamom (talk) 04:13, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Let's get this over with quickly: most of the English media in the Philippines is in English. The longest running newspapers (such as this one, lol) are in English. I've found as much as 12 references without really trying that hard. The only sourcing issues are references pre-internet as those are hard to find unless you'd go to a library that has a newspaper archive on microfilm.
 * Anyway, as per "The periodical has made significant impact in its field or other area, such as higher education", this has been accorded by the Cultural Center of the Philippines an entry to its encyclopedia of the arts, the only periodical to be given an entry. That demostrates significant impact. Same with its role in abolishing mandatory ROTC in the country. – H T  D  05:55, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep. While most student publications are not notable, this one is. It has made a major impact in the world of Philippine campus journalism. Even the Cultural Center of the Philippines says so. And that's enough for me. Also, note that most Philippine media is in English, so finding sources shouldn't be difficult. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 10:34, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.