Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Waking Up Laughing Tour


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. There are no clear guidelines regarding articles on tours and certainly no consensus to delete in this discussion. --Stormie (talk) 09:35, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

The Waking Up Laughing Tour

 * ( [ delete] ) – (View AfD) (View log)

Unsourced and indiscriminate info. Little more than a setlist and listing, indiscriminate info. Per consensus regarding tours, these aren't individually notable. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • (Broken clamshells•Otter chirps) 02:50, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I dispute that there is any such "consensus regarding tours". Wasted Time R (talk) 03:54, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually, there is: WP:OUTCOMES Rwiggum  (Talk /Contrib ) 03:59, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
 * That's not a guideline of WP:MUSIC, that's just somebody's assessment of AfD's for tour articles. And an inaccurate assessment, by the way:  a recent attempt to delete most of the Rolling Stones tour articles was a one-sided rout against the nom; attempts to delete Kiss tour articles failed, and attempts to delete Bon Jovi tour articles failed.  In general, the only ones that have succeeded have been those against articles that only listed tour dates and setlists, nothing else.  Which I haven't tried to defend; anyone who writes that lame an article, has what's coming.  Wasted Time R (talk) 04:09, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
 * But those groups and subsequent tours have much more history to them than this tour. I think that's the main reason their deletion noms were denied. Rwiggum  (Talk /Contrib ) 04:15, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
 * The Rolling Stones certainly do, agreed; the guy who tried to delete The Rolling Stones American Tour 1969 was out of his mind. But I would argue that Martina McBride is just as important a figure to country music as Bon Jovi and Kiss (ugh, sorry) are to rock.  Indeed, McBride's tours showcase the purist approach to concerts, in a genre that sometimes gets fancy or schmaltzy — she dresses simply, no costume changes, focuses on the music and her singing.  Wasted Time R (talk) 04:19, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
 * So in other words, a pretty standard concert tour with nothing really special about it. I understand that she made more money off of this than her last album or whatever your argument is, but I thin you just made my argument for me: It's a standard tour. There isn't really anything all that special about it, and I just don't think that it deserves an article. Rwiggum  (Talk /Contrib ) 04:24, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I disagree with you about that. But you still haven't explained why How I Feel (Martina McBride song), which conveys virtually no information that isn't already on Waking Up Laughing, deserves an article, while this tour article, which conveys lots of information that isn't anywhere else, does not.  In your language, what makes that single more "special" than the tour?  Wasted Time R (talk) 13:56, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I shouldn't have to. This is an article about the Waking Up Laughing tour, not "How I Feel". And to be honest, it isn't special. If you feel so strongly about it, then go ahead and nominate it for AfD. Just because that article exists isn't a valid argument for keeping this one. Rwiggum  (Talk /Contrib ) 14:03, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm making a general argument that the notion that 'all albums and all charted singles are automatically notable, while tours rarely are' is very misguided. Since this notion seems to be your rationale for the string of tour AfD's you have put up, it's quite relevant to this discussion.  If, for example, you wanted to drastically shrink the number of music articles in general, and say that for someone like McBride we should have one bio article and one discography article and nothing else, that would be a coherent position.  (That's the way Wikipedia was, just a few years ago!)  But your current stance just seems to be WP:IDONTLIKEIT towards tour articles.  Wasted Time R (talk) 14:19, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
 * No, I'm just trying focusing specifically on tour articles with little notability and content at the moment. If you want to nominate the song, that's your deal, but I've got enough AfD noms to keep track of for right now. Rwiggum  (Talk /Contrib ) 14:25, 11 July 2008 (UTC)


 * This page has been up for 15 months and no one has complained, you are doing this to be spiteful. If it has been up for more than a year, there is no reason to delete it now. User: Rszeliga89 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.118.114.60 (talk)
 * The age of a page is immaterial. There's stuff that's even older that probably doesn't belong. I am not doing this to be spiteful, please assume some good faith. Ten Pound Hammer  and his otters • (Broken clamshells•Otter chirps) 02:50, 11 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Delete. Page does not contain any notable or useful content. Rwiggum  (Talk /Contrib ) 03:00, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions.   -- Xymmax  So let it be written   So let it be done  03:15, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions.   -- Xymmax  So let it be written   So let it be done  03:18, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Strong keep. This is a reasonably good tour article.  It covers the same kind of information an album or single article does — time frame of creation, song contents, level of commercial success, special event aspects, and so on.  Lots of newspaper reviews are listed, which gives third-party sources for further references.  Yes, inline citation would be helpful, so tag it.  More people likely saw McBride on this tour than bought her albums at the time, and she likely made more money from it.  Touring is a vital part of the modern music industry, and getting moreso; the live concert experience is one thing that can't be digitally downloaded or duplicated.  There is reason to improve this article, but not to delete it.  Wasted Time R (talk) 03:53, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment. Well, we're arguing the merits of this article, not concert tours in general. Yes, there are plenty of newspaper articles, but this doesn't seem like a particularly notable tour in general. Rwiggum  (Talk /Contrib ) 03:57, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Don't delete this! I enjoy looking at tour pages because I enjoy seeing the set lists, reading about the acts that are playing, and seeing the links to reviews all in one place! It's very valuable to a music fan like me! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.58.55.180 (talk) 15:14, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, actually you are on the warpath against tour articles in general, but to deal with this one ... it was one of the top-grossing country tours of the year. It had unusual setlist changes for a country tour.  It featured her first live recording.  If you ask me, this tour is a lot more important and notable than How I Feel (Martina McBride song), the second single of her album around this same time that only charted to #15; this tour article has a lot more useful information, insight, and importance than that single article does.  I don't understand the rationale behind this AfD.  Wasted Time R (talk) 04:15, 11 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Delete Neutral Looking at Wasted Time R's arguments of special importance of this tour makes me lack confidence in "delete" (but not quite convinced of "keep"); I'll just stay out of this vote. LotLE × talk  04:18, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete - per Rwiggum. LonelyBeacon (talk) 10:02, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep - This tour article actually has references, unlike the others. It also went from 12 April 2007 - 18 October 2008, which has to be some kind of a record.  It is a significant enough tour to warrant an article, has 3rd party sources, etc. Myrrideon (talk) 21:02, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep Sources and links in the article indicate notability and provide verifiability. I also question the idea that there is any consensus on wikipedia regarding articles on tours. --Bardin (talk) 14:50, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * With due respect, the only sources are reviews. I would hope that a truly notable tour would have more than reviews.  I do hope that the folks at WP:MUSIC will start the process of coming up with a clearer delineation of what defines a "notable" tour" to avoid problems in the future. LonelyBeacon (talk) 15:30, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * What's wrong with reviews? They are the main form of coverage that anyone in a creative field can expect to receive. --Bardin (talk) 11:37, 18 July 2008 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.