Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Wrecks


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete.  MBisanz  talk 01:25, 10 November 2017 (UTC)

The Wrecks

 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

Article about a non-notable (yet) band, written by the band for publicity purposes, according to the talk page. Being signed to a notable label is enough to escape WP:A7 speedy deletion, but still isn't a criterion for inclusion according to WP:BAND. This seems to be a case of WP:TOOSOON. ~Anachronist (talk) 17:52, 11 October 2017 (UTC)

Hello, I'd like to argue this. To start off, I'd like to say that I am not a member, family member, or friend of the band. I have no officiations or hidden motives to write this article for "publicity," I simply heard their music on the radio and was curious for more information and did not see a source.

To contest this argument, I'd like to refer to the rules of "Notability (music)", specificly number 11 and 1.

Criterion #1 states "Has been the subject of multiple, non-trivial, published works appearing in sources that are reliable, not self-published, and are independent of the musician or ensemble itself." This band, the wrecks, has been published in many credible sources, which are listed in the references. I can also add more if needed as I did not include them all. Recently, the band got a featured article in the magazine "Alternative Press," a well known source in the alternative/indie music industry.

As for #11, it states "Has been placed in rotation nationally by a major radio or music television network." The wrecks were on Sirius XMs "alt Nation" channel, which is a national channel, for several weeks in a row competing in their "alt-18" countdown for the number one spot. Their song "favorite liar" is still regularly played on the station.

I'd also like to mention that they also wrote and performed a song for a "Optimum TV" commercial, which you can find here https://www.ispot.tv/ad/wTDs/optimum-ludicrous-speed-song-by-the-wrecks

I believe these are plenty of reasons why this page should stay up. If you need more information, or would recommend adding anything to the page, Please let me know. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nico Di (talk • contribs) 21:58, 11 October 2017 (UTC)  — Nico Di (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.


 * I encourage editors to glance at Talk:The Wrecks in which the author liberally uses the term "we" which strongly indicates an organizational COI.
 * Let's dispense with #11. This is actually a good point, although a "channel" on XM isn't the same as a "major radio network". XM has tons of channels. But it's worth debating. I'd say this is borderline, but I'd like input from other editors.
 * For criterion #1, let's look at the sources as they stand now on 11 October:
 * anothercentury.com - it's the record label, not independent of the subject
 * another anothercentury.com page, not independent
 * an interview, not independent
 * livenation.com page with no content, no coverage at all, it's just a program listing
 * Instagram, self-published, not considered reliable for the purpose of establishing notability
 * Instagram, see above
 * another interview, not independent
 * brief coverage of All Time Low, another band, giving The Wrecks a trivial mention, which doesn't count toward notability
 * Facebook page, not a valid source for establishing notability
 * another anothercentury.com page, see 1 and 2 above
 * interview with highvoltage.com - interviews are primary sources, not independent, and don't matter for notability
 * a livenation.com page about All Time Low, with zero coverage whatsoever about The Wrecks
 * yet another anothercentury.com site promoting their band, not independent
 * 94.9 page that's just a schedule listing, not significant coverage
 * 94.9 meet and greet page, just a picture, no significant coverage whatsoever
 * So, what do we have...? Exactly zero sources in that entire list that demonstrate notability, failing WP:BAND criterion #1. ~Anachronist (talk) 22:36, 11 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of California-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 23:12, 11 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 23:12, 11 October 2017 (UTC)

I originally said "we" because my friend and I wrote the article together. (If you go back into the article history you should be able to see us both working on it) Neither of us are affiliated to the band in any way. Sorry for the confusion on that. I would also like to hear others opinions on the XM subject, as I'm looking into it now and believe it should be included. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.69.143.15 (talk • contribs) 00:55, 12 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Please sign your posts with four tildes: ~ By the way, that claim about being on regular rotation on that XM radio station will require a citation to a reliable independent source, not just the word of a Wikipedia editor. I don't see this cited in the article. ~Anachronist (talk) 01:44, 12 October 2017 (UTC)
 * What does the signing it with the four ~ mean? And I will find a source for the regular rotation and add it, thank you for the info.
 * Four tildes will be converted to a signature with a time stamp. If you are logged in, your signature will include your user name. If you aren't logged in, it will be your IP address. It helps editors keep track of who is saying what. ~Anachronist (talk) 17:23, 12 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Note Please note Sockpuppet investigations/Bassgirl27. – Train2104 (t • c) 02:08, 12 October 2017 (UTC)
 * That's a malformed SPI report. How is that relevant to this discussion? ~Anachronist (talk) 17:23, 12 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete Fails WP:BAND, as detailed by Anachronist, and I couldn't find further in-depth coverage.--Pontificalibus (talk) 15:56, 12 October 2017 (UTC)
 * If it can be shown that the band gets airplay on an XM satellite radio station, what's your view of how that would meet WP:BAND criterion #11? A radio station isn't the same as a "radio network" although in this case the station is available nationwide. It's somewhat ambiguous. ~Anachronist (talk) 17:27, 12 October 2017 (UTC)

Hi again, I've got a question. Would it help if I added more sources, now that I know more what counts as reliable and unreliable? I've looked into other bands of the same caliber's wiki pages and see some sources which also have articles about the wrecks. 64.69.143.15 (talk) 00:31, 13 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes, it would help. Why not list them here so we can look them over? ~Anachronist (talk) 01:27, 13 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Delete as it stands currently, references are not reliable or independent enough. Deathlibrarian (talk) 10:53, 13 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Well, there's the XM Radio Alt Nation channel on XM Radio that has this "Alt 18 Countdown" show, in which the band has reached a position in this "top 18" list over a number of months (see this list). The question is whether that meets WP:BAND criterion #11. I'm on the fence, leaning to "no" because I don't see that as a notable radio program, but I'm willing to withdraw this AFD nomination if consensus says otherwise. After all, we don't judge notability based sources as they stand in the article, but by sources available. ~Anachronist (talk) 20:38, 13 October 2017 (UTC)
 * I think if that is a legitimate radio station, then that would help, but its going to need more RS than it has as well. Deathlibrarian (talk) 22:06, 13 October 2017 (UTC)

Thank you so much for your help! I'll gather as many sources as I can tomorrow and post them here for you to go over. 2601:152:4201:6BF0:8C83:E295:24BC:5DC (talk) 02:03, 14 October 2017 (UTC)

Heres a list of radio stations I could find they were played on: KTCL Denver 103.3 Buffelo KHTB Salt Lake City 102.1 milwaukee MMR philly 103.3 Kentucky 98.5 South Carolina 106.7 KROQ LA KRZQ Reno NV 104.5 Philly X105.1 Kansas city 96X Virginia LIVE san fransisco — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:152:4201:6BF0:AD51:28D4:5C00:776B (talk) 01:29, 17 October 2017 (UTC)

Also, here are two Alt press sources: http://www.altpress.com/news/entry/the_wrecks_fall_2017_tour http://www.altpress.com/features/entry/the_wrecks_favorite_liar_video_premiere  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:152:4201:6BF0:AD51:28D4:5C00:776B (talk) 01:32, 17 October 2017 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: To assess radio station arguments and whether altpress is a sufficient source.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 18:22, 18 October 2017 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: As above relist

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Night  fury  12:32, 25 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Being merely "played on" a radio station isn't sufficient. They need to be in regular rotation, and on a major radio network, not a small local or college station. Lots of stations (especially college stations) play one-off things. And those Alt press sources aren't suitable; one's just a directory listing, and the other is an interview. ~Anachronist (talk) 00:00, 29 October 2017 (UTC)

They were (and I believe still are, but I'd need to confirm) on regular rotation on AltNation. Has there been a decision on if that station is valid to use? It is a national station so I'm confused as to why it wouldn't be. Also, I don't think any of those were college stations 64.69.143.15 (talk) 18:24, 30 October 2017 (UTC)
 * It reminds me of Wine Spectator; they review 10,000 wines per year, so the chance of any particular wine getting a review eventually is pretty high, but being reviewed in that publication doesn't make a wine notable. In that sense I'm not entirely convinced that being played on an XM radio station meets WP:MUSICBIO #11; it depends on the station. Alt Nation exists for the sole purpose of giving airplay to alternative musical acts. ~Anachronist (talk) 21:33, 30 October 2017 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: Final relist. still waiting for more participation

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, L3X1 (distænt write)  01:53, 2 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete Not enough evidence found from reliable sources to indicate significant notability. Kind Tennis Fan (talk) 03:45, 2 November 2017 (UTC)

Wait but no one has commented for further opinions after the most resent relist 64.69.143.15 (talk) 17:48, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete I would've voted keep if the article had visibly been improved especially about RS since the start of this discussion but nothing has been done. Being declined as CSD because of signing major label doesn't mean the band is automatically notable it only mean CSD doesn't apply. In addition, the sources are largely unreliable or primary; Instagram (self) 2 times, Facebook (self) 1 time, signing label website 4 times. There is no WP:SIGCOV of this record in reliable sources generally. &thinsp;&mdash; Ammarpad (talk) 15:12, 4 November 2017 (UTC)

I thought I was supposed to wait for the discussion to be over to edit the page, could I have a day or two to edit and then see where we are? 64.69.143.15 (talk) 08:50, 6 November 2017 (UTC)
 * The page isn't frozen while this discussion continues. You may continue to edit it. ~Anachronist (talk) 16:50, 6 November 2017 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.