Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Young Brothers


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  13:13, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

The Young Brothers

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Originally speedy deleted, re-created and I feel uncomfortable about speedying it again. Essentially, this band's only claim to fame is that some of the members helped to write a song which appeared as a filler on an album of another, notable artist. As notability is not inherited, I feel this band doesn't meet the notability guideline. There is one interview (from a weak source) referenced in the article, but aside from that the only sources I can find are entries on websites that review bands for weddings (which, I feel, speaks in itself about the significance of this band). Ultimately, fails WP:GNG, and notability is not inherited. Basa lisk inspect damage⁄berate 20:52, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom and insufficient explanation provided by the creator. - Presidentman talk · contribs Random Picture of the Day (Talkback) 23:53, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Regarding my article on "The Young Brothers" Thank you so, very much to whomever it was, for helping me clean up, or propperly construct my The Young Brothers article. The Young Brothers' career achievements, are remarkably & extraordinarily noteworthy, considering their direct association with Kid Rock & the Cinderella type story, behind their co-write with Kid Rock called, "Redneck Paradise". It's hardly an album filler. I have heard the song, which can be found on youtube, and it is likely to be Kid Rock's hit song off the "Rebel Soul" album. It's not everyday, that a song written by two struggling, economically challenged brothers, gets used by a major label artist, to re-names a Bahama island destination, for a company such as Norwegian Cruise Lines . If you have any other advice, that you may offer, to help me get my article approved, I would greatly appreciate any help you might care to offer! Thank you again, so very much!  Tybllc (talk) 21:00, 4 December 2012 (UTC)tybllcTybllc (talk) 21:00, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi there. As I pointed out above, the problem with your argument is that notability is not inherited from other subjects (in this case, Kids Rock). In order to warrant an article of their own, The Young Brothers have to establish their own notability independent of Kids Rock, or anything else. In order to do that, we need to find good, independent, reliable sources to verify the information. One of the links you've provided above is the one decent source in the article that I mentioned in the nomination, but aside from that I can't find anything else, and one is not enough according to the general notability guideline. Basa lisk  inspect damage⁄berate 23:11, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom --Sue Rangell ✍ ✉ 00:26, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I must "CONTEST" your deleting my The Young Brothers article, based on the fact that my The Young Brothers article does unquestionably meet Wikipedia's "NOTABILITY" Requirements, following criteria for both A. "musicians & ensembles", as well as B."composers and lyricists".
 * Has credit for writing or co-writing either lyrics or music for a notable composition.MUSIC
 * Criteria for musicians and ensembles: "As co-writers, will have a single "Redeck Paradise" off Kid Rock's Rebel Soul album on America's national music charts", soon after it's scheduled release by Kid Rock, as a single come Spring of 2013.
 * Criteria for composers and lyricists: "By having credit for co-writing both lyrics & music for a notable composition".) MUSIC) by their "CLEAR MENTION "AS A BAND", & CREDIT" for co-writing (with Kid Rock) a notable composition, in Billboard Magazine's November Issue, next to #6. "Redneck Paradise", stating, "Teaming with The Young Brothers, Rock digs into a good-time, down-home country lope to bring us a Garden of Eden that allows chewing tobacco." (New Releases - Kid Rock - Rebel Soul - Track By Track Review | Billboard Magazine | billboard.com) As well as having co-writing credits for "Redneck Paradise" on Kid Rock's Rebel Soul album. This composition, is clearly, extraordinarily "NOTABLE", (of which I have already provided & referrenced the truthful fact) that it has had a Norwegian Cruise Lines, Bahama Island destination & resort, named after it. <- "THIS" I must insist, is an extraordinary achievement of "NOTABILITY", that is NOT "inherrited" as you say, but rather, a "DIRECT" achievement of "NOTABILITY" achieved by The Young Brothers, & deems my The Young Brothers article, worthy of being approved, based on wikipedia's own requirements!! The Young Brothers were mentioned, & creditted for the composition, as a band, in Billboard Magazine, under Track 6 "Redneck Paradise"
 * Again, I do "Thank you" kindly, for your consideration. Tybllc (talk) 10:28, 5 December 2012 (UTC)tybllcTybllc (talk) 10:28, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
 * This isn't relevant either. Firstly, I don't think it's at all well-established that the recording is notable - it hasn't even been released as a single as far as I can tell. In addition, contrary to your claim to have proved the song's notability, the only source you have provided is one interview with the band (not independent) which doesn't analyse it in a critical way, and only exists as a commentary on the novel fact that a nothing band wrote a song for a something album. The fact still remains that they are a nothing band. Even if all the above wasn't true, your argument still doesn't stack up, because you're deceptively trying to use WP:COMPOSER as the standard for inclusion, when the guideline that should actually be applied is WP:BAND (this is a band after all). WP:BAND is extremely inclusive; there are 12 criteria which confer notability, but this band doesn't tick any of them. In fact, the guideline specifically states that bands which are famous only for a contribution to a notable larger piece of work, a stand-alone article is not appropriate. So, to summarise:
 * The song isn't notable anyway and has never been released as a single.
 * Even if it were, the band still wouldn't warrant their own article as this is their only claim to fame.
 * You're trying to guideline-defraud contributors to this discussion by quoting the wrong inclusion guideline. The correct guideline is WP:BAND; all the criteria of which the subject fails. Basa lisk  inspect damage⁄berate 18:50, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Respectfully... May I draw your attention to the Steely Dan article, which (all significant accomplishments aside) states, "Steely Dan" is an "American rock band" consisting of core members Donald Fagen and Walter Becker.  The band's music is characterized by complex jazz-influenced structures and harmonies played by Becker and Fagen along with a "revolving cast of rock and pop studio musicians".  I bring this to your attention, because The Young Brothers is also an "American rock band" consisting of core members Eric Young and Jason Young, &  The band's music is characterized by Rock structures and harmonies played by Young and Young along with a "revolving cast of rock studio musicians", (which at the moment, Gary Gilbert (former session player for the rock band Kansas, is their sessioning bassist).  It seems to me, that your going out of your way, to downplay The Young Brothers significance as both musicians & composers. And I don't appreciate your hostile mud sling'n, in referring to them as a "Nothing Band" lumped in with "Wedding Bands" who wrote a common "Filler Song"!  This song, "Redneck Paradise" penned originally by these composers, has just had a Bahama island named after it. So, you're telling me, that such is a common occurance, deserving of no "Notability" much less, your respect???  Tybllc (talk) 19:24, 5 December 2012 (UTC)tybllcTybllc (talk) 19:24, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
 * "...our sessioning bassist"? Are you a member of the band or connected with them? Basa lisk  inspect damage⁄berate 19:27, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I am their manager! Tybllc (talk) 19:31, 5 December 2012 (UTC)tybllcTybllc (talk) 19:31, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I think this says everything that needs to be said. Basa lisk  inspect damage⁄berate 19:33, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Regarding "THE" The Young Brothers article... I have corrected the article, to exemplify that (as comparable to the Steely Dan article regarding band vs composer structuring) it clearly credits the individual composers, or as the Steely Dan article calls it, "CORE MEMBERS", so that it now justifyably meets the Requirements, following criteria for both (A). "musicians & ensembles", & (B)."composers and lyricists". MUSIC
 * Criteria for musicians and ensembles: (2) "As co-writers, will have a single "Redeck Paradise" off Kid Rock's Rebel Soul album on America's national music charts", soon after it's scheduled release by Kid Rock, as a single come Spring of 2013.
 * Criteria for composers and lyricists: (1) "By having credit for co-writing both lyrics & music for a notable composition".) MUSIC) by their "CLEAR MENTION "AS A BAND", & CREDIT" for co-writing (with Kid Rock) a notable composition, in Billboard Magazine's November Issue, next to #6. "Redneck Paradise", stating, "Teaming with The Young Brothers, Rock digs into a good-time, down-home country lope to bring us a Garden of Eden that allows chewing tobacco."(New Releases - Kid Rock - Rebel Soul - Track By Track Review | Billboard Magazine | billboard.com) As well as having co-writing credits for "Redneck Paradise" on Kid Rock's Rebel Soul album. Please re-evaluate "THE" article, & tell me if it now qualifies based on the merits of the individual composers, or core members. Thank you kindly again, for your patience & help!  Tybllc (talk) 20:23, 5 December 2012 (UTC)tybllcTybllc (talk) 20:23, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Changing the wording of the article to try and make it conform to your view of reality does not change the fact that this is a band, and the notability governing bands is WP:BAND, and that this band fails that guideline. Also, please note that comparing this article to other examples of poor practice is not a particularly compelling argument. Basa lisk inspect damage⁄berate 20:47, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment feel free to trout-slap me for asking, but does Tybllc stand for "The Young Brothers, LLC"? --Sue Rangell ✍ ✉ 20:36, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Haa.. That is actually an honest question Sue, & I could fib & say "NO", but the truth is it does. I am their manager, as I have already admitted such to Basalisk above. I am aware of the C.O.I. guidelines, & I am doing my dambdest to be completely objective. But if such, is that much of a risk, I can easily pick up the phone & find or hire someone else to author the article. If we may please put the "C.O.I." topic aside for just one moment? And if you will please, kindly observe the corrections I have "Objectively" & "Accurately" made to the page, I am sure that you will find, that it does meet the requirements of "NOTABILITY" that Wiki's guidelines demand.  Please, go & "OBJECTIVELY" take a look at the page now?. Thank you kindly.  Ps. @ "Basalisk" Please answer one question... (All notable accomplishments aside) How is it not bias, or favoratism on the part of Wikipedia, to let composers Donald Fagan & Walter Becker get away with qualifying by Wikipedia as (Steely Dan) a band, when they are actually "NOT" really a band, but rather, composers, yet if I cite their already set precident, I get told, "comparing this article to other examples of poor practice is not a particularly compelling argument"??? Maybe someone should "Nominate the Steely Dan article for deletion", being that you've just called it "poorly written"??? I really don't believe that I am the biased one in this discussion.  Tybllc (talk) 20:55, 5 December 2012 (UTC)tybllcTybllc (talk) 20:55, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete - a vanity page of nonnotable band. Staszek Lem (talk) 00:28, 6 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Tybllc, read User:Uncle G/On notability. This is an encyclopaedia, not a band database.  Things get in here by being already documented parts of human knowledge.  Notability explains that quite clearly. Steely Dan shows just some of the published independent documentation for Steely Dan.  There's even a book in there.  At The Young Brothers, in stark contrast, you have an empty page with a Flash box, an advertisment, a press release, a band interview, a news article about another band, and a blank page with another Everywhere Girl on it.  We are encyclopaedists.  We don't care that you think that you're as good as Steely Dan.  We're not in the business of rating bands.  This is an enyclopaedia.  We care about the existence of proper, published, independent, reliable, in-depth documentation of subjects.  So where are the independent, reliable, published books, articles, and so forth that document this particular band?  You'll get exactly nowhere repeatedly going on about how other musicians are "not a band", because that is completely irrelevant here.  Cite sources and show that this is a properly documented subject that can be written about and checked against published sources.  Oh, and go to Changing username and get your account name changed, too.  It's a fairly easy process.  Corporate and promotional account names are not allowed, here.  Someone spotting this is likely to disable the account if you don't.  Sources!  Sources!  Sources!  Uncle G (talk) 13:55, 6 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 19:46, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

Please understand, that I am a "newby" to Wikipedia, meaning that this is my 1st. article, & it has been a valueable learning experience for me. The biggest mistake I had made when I begun the article, was that (not realizing that I had to) I did not make a clear enough destinction to point out that "The Young Brothers" article, is about 2 brothers & "composers" who are only "Regarded" as a "band" by choice, because they perform as such with the accompanyment of hired performing musicians, for which I unintentionally made the error, of leading you to believe that this article was about a band & not about 2 composers. I do appologise for my mistake, & I thank you kindly for your critiques in pointing this out to me.
 * Regarding the article in question, "The Young Brothers" that I have created.

You may, or may not choose to delete "The Young Brothers" article, but I just wanted to say, that I have been trying my best to clean up the article, & clearly draw the distinction, that it is in fact, an article about 2 brothers & "composers", Eric Young & Jason Young who are uniquely regarded as a band because of their choice to perform with the accompanyment of hired performing musicians. I do contest it's deletion because I strongly feel, that it meets Wikipedia's "NOTABILITY" Requirements, following criteria for "composers and lyricists".

It seems clear to me, that The Young Brothers meet Wikipedia's "NOTABILITY" Requirements following the criteria for "composers and lyricists", for having credit for co-writing both lyrics & music for a notable composition", by having co-writen (with Kid Rock) a notable composition, for which they are not only clearly listed on Kid Rock's Rebel Soul album as co-writers, but they are also accredited in Billboard Magazine's November Issue, next to #6. "Redneck Paradise", stating, "Teaming with The Young Brothers, Rock digs into a good-time, down-home country lope to bring us a Garden of Eden that allows chewing tobacco." [] I also believe, that this composition, is also clearly, and extraordinarily "NOTABLE", for being the 1st & only song, to ever have a Norwegian Cruise Lines, Bahama Island destination re-named after it.[] <- "THIS" I must insist, is an extraordinary achievement of "NOTABILITY", for a composer, that is NOT "inherrited" & in my oppinion, worthy of the article's inclusion, based on wikipedia's own requirements! Please see -> []! :)

Thank you kindly for your consideration. Tybllc (talk) 13:51, 9 December 2012 (UTC)tybllcTybllc (talk) 13:51, 9 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Delete, not notable per GNG or any other criteria I can see. -- No  unique  names  22:59, 9 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete. Have gotten brief side mentions for having a song on the Kid Rock album, and that's about it. If and when they achieve significant coverage from reliable sources, then we should have an encyclopedia article about them, not the bio from the back of their 8x10 glossy. --Hobbes Goodyear (talk) 08:01, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

Thank you Hobbes Goodyear! I understand now, what it is you are seeking to meet the criteria, if you should decide to delete, I will try again at a later date with reliably sourced criteria verification in hand! For the record. This article is not derived from the band's glossy picture bio. On the contrary, The band just took it's Bio, from the wiki article's draft that you are voting down here!...lol Once again, I do thank you all kindly for your time & consideration. This has been a valuable experience for me, as a "NEWBIE" to Wiki! ;) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.94.99.136 (talk) 18:24, 10 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Delete - This may be a cse of it being too soon for an article. Co-writing a song included on an album of a significant music artist is quite an accomplishment.  However, that is not sufficient to meet wikipedia's inclusion criteria.  At this point, any success is speculative.  Nop prejudice to recreation in the future is they recieve significant coverage in independent reliable sources. -- Whpq (talk) 19:41, 10 December 2012 (UTC)


 * I completely understand Whpq. Thank you for your kind acknowledgement regarding the possibility, of the article's future Wiki potential! If I had not tried creating the article now, I would not had learned of Wiki's procedures. Please forgive me for my ignorance in contesting you all so strongly. It has really taught me alot, & I owe you all a great big "Thank You"! Tybllc (talk) 09:48, 11 December 2012 (UTC)tybllc  :)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.