Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The future of Iran’s democracy movement


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. RL0919 (talk) 16:43, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

The future of Iran’s democracy movement

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

WP:NOTNEWS and WP:SIGCOV are the problems with this article, which is about a meeting that had no sustained coverage (far from WP:GNG). ParadaJulio (talk) 10:16, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Politics and Iran. Shellwood (talk) 10:29, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete, we don't need this. BenzoAid (talk) 15:45, 25 March 2023 (UTC)
 * This is the most powerful reasoning to delete an article. "We" don't need "this". GharouniTalk 09:42, 26 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete or draftify –  City Urbanism   🗩   🖉  22:51, 25 March 2023 (UTC)
 * On what grounds? GharouniTalk 09:43, 26 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Move and Keep or Draftify and Move and incubate; as an article about the Alliance for Democracy and Freedom in Iran, for the reason's stated here: Talk:The_future_of_Iran%E2%80%99s_democracy_movement, among others. Jaredscribe (talk) 18:17, 27 March 2023 (UTC)
 * The summit attendees have released their promised charter, they have styled themselves as the ADFI, so the obvious and logical thing to do is to expand the scope of this article to be about the alliance and its future political action. (Unless your goal is to undermine this Iranian opposition group, and support the existing regime, in which case you might deliberately ignore this fact and then nominate the article for deletion)
 * Jaredscribe (talk) 18:43, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I moved the article because after one week there was no response, which is presumed consensus.
 * Its not a "completely" different topic, its an expansion of this same topic.
 * If the AfD ignores this, then the AfD may be a disruptive process.
 * Also, @ParadaJulio rolled back a citation and several other constructive contributions. If this user insists on reverting the article-move to its original name, then he should please WP:PRESERVE the other content. Jaredscribe (talk) 18:45, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Now that the proposed move has been explicitly supported by @Gharouni, who is the only other constructive contributor to this article, we have not only presumed consensus for the move, but unanimous and decisive consensus for the move as well.
 * Jaredscribe (talk) 18:51, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * A few citations to the Iranian english language media, have now been provided on the article to substantiate the notable existence of the ADFI.
 * Some of those citations were also on the article which you actively worked to delete, as you know.
 * Articles_for_deletion/Iranian_Democracy_Movement
 * Remind you of our policy: Wikipedia:Guide to deletion § Considerations
 * "First do the necessary homework and look for sources yourself, and invite discussion on the talk page by using the notability template, if you are disputing the notability of an article's subject. The fact that you haven't heard of something, or don't personally consider it worthy, are not criteria for deletion. You must look for, and demonstrate that you couldn't find, any independent sources of sufficient depth."
 * @ParadaJulio has not even attempted to do this.  I have now undertaken to do it, the AfD should be closed as "Keep", since the nominator is evidently WP:Tendentious Jaredscribe (talk) 18:49, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * The nominator was also substantially tendentious in the earlier AfD, by inaccurately alleging the NCRI's efforts to be a "hoax", and then doubling down on that false claim in a Sockpuppet investigation. And is now continuing that WP:Disruptive editing behavior here:
 * Talk:National_Council_of_Resistance_of_Iran
 * Since @ParadaJulio is now continuing to press these false allegations against in ANI along with his cohort @AndyTheGrump, I will ask that these users be dealt a penalty equivalent to the penalty that they are seeking to have dealt against me. Jaredscribe (talk) 19:46, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

Relisting comment: most of the arguments put forth so far on both sides are extremely weak. I am relisting this discussion hoping that more comments will be forthcoming focusing on the notability of the Alliance for Democracy and Freedom in Iran and/or this summit Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Salvio giuliano 08:36, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment. I'm not going to participate directly in this AfD discussion, as it might be seen inappropriate in circumstances where I'm involved in a dispute with one of the participants in regard to another article, but I would like to suggest that Jaredscribe's hand-waving at talk-page discussions elsewhere is contrary to the process laid out in WP:DISCUSSAFD. It is entirely unreasonable to expect a closer to read though material elsewhere in the hope of figuring out exactly what the 'reasons stated' are. Policy-based arguments for a 'keep' are generally simple to make (e.g. through demonstrating that sufficient third-party sources exist etc), and should be stated directly in the AfD discussion, where they can be assessed by all, and responded to if appropriate. If Jaredscribe wants his arguments for keeping the article to be taken into consideration, he should state them explicitly here. And if he isn't prepared to do that, the closer will, in my opinion, be entirely justified in simply ignoring them. AndyTheGrump (talk) 18:53, 27 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi. At least his/her reasons are more reasonable in comparison to other two users that have requested to delete the article. It is even more reasonable in comparison to the reasons that the user who has nominated the article for AFD. This article is about some important current events and as it was requested the title change is now necessary. This article will need to be completed and more information added to it gradually as they happen. I requested speedy deletion as creator of this article (it was declined as there are other users involved) because I was sure this article would never be nominated for any reasons, to be deleted, except for some other reasons that I can not say. Thanks for your comment. GharouniTalk  06:37, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Changing the topic of the article with forbidden synthesis is not a valid argument to keep the article. Jaredscribe also tried to do this in another recent AfD with a similar topic, which obviously ended up being deleted. AndyTheGrump is correct that Jaredscribe's approach here goes against policy. ParadaJulio (talk) 09:03, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
 * 1. That the ADFI exists, was birthed from this "future of" meeting, and has published a manifesto, is not a synthetic statement. It is accurate reporting of the WP:Verifiable facts, and is therefore a valid argument for keeping the article.
 * 2.0 This article on the ADFI is a particular article about a specific group, not a WP:Broad-concept article like the other, therefore not an apt comparison, and not as susceptible to the possibility of inadvertently admitting synthetic OR.
 * 2.1 The other article is now renamed (as I had proposed) and is being incubated at User:Jaredscribe/Iranian_democracy_movements. It has been shared with WP:WikiProject Iran and eventually will be published with more sources and without the problematic name (which was the only "synthetic" claim in the article).  In the AfD itself I had acknowledged this problem - I'm not unaware or insensitive to it.  I agree to abide by our WP:Content policy including the prohibition on WP:Original research, and to abide by the mostly fair decision of the closing admin in that AfD case.
 * Regards, Jaredscribe (talk) 19:26, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for responding @Gharouni and for signalling your agreement with proposed move. Since we are the only constructive contributors to this article, it seems that there is now unanimous consensus for it.
 * I perceive that you are not able to speak freely at the moment, and whatever your earlier reasons were proposing speedy deletion, have retracted it.
 * Thank you for your contribution to the WP:Encyclopedia! Jaredscribe (talk) 19:12, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete- per Jaredscribe. Walls of text are not a substitute for reliable sources (which is something that the topic is clearly lacking). - MA Javadi (talk) 14:28, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi, I've voted to Move and Keep or Draftify and Move and incubate as "Alliance for Democracy and Freedom in Iran", which is an expansion of this topic, not an entirely different topic. I also tagged it more citations needed.
 * Although not MSM, there is clearly some reporting about the ADFI; less about "the future ..." meeting.
 * Please clarify your vote, thanks.
 * Jaredscribe (talk) 00:43, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi @MA Javadi, see question above, forgot to ping you. Jaredscribe (talk) 02:45, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep This article is about a current revolutionary event that still is going on and just need to be expanded over time. there are thousands of reliable sources (in many languages) that cover these events. This article only needs topic change/s and information to be added as events go. Gharouni<i style="color:orange">Talk</i> 01:47, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Delete per WP:CRYSTAL and WP:SYNTH. The article currently cobbles together a subject based on a Georgetown conference titled "the future of Iran's democracy movement" plus citations to a wide range of opinion and news pieces that briefly touch on the "future" of the movement. The Georgetown conference does not appear to meet WP:GNG or WP:NEVENT, and the other sources do not identify a separate "future" topic distinct from the current Mahsa Amini protests and historical protest movements in Iran. Maybe notability could be established for Alliance for Democracy and Freedom in Iran, but the currently cited sources do not come close to meeting WP:ORGCRITE so I would not be in favor of moving this page at this time. signed,Rosguill talk 15:56, 3 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete per Rosguill. The article strings together weak to irrelevant sources, many of which fail to assert any kind of WP:GNG for this topic ("The future of Iran's democracy movement" or "The Alliance for Democracy and Freedom in Iran"). The current Mahsa Amini protests is the notable movement here, not the Georgetown conference or its socalled "coalition of activists", for which there aren’t enough sources to justify notability. JoseJan89 (talk) 07:56, 5 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete per Rosguill and JoseJan89. This is WP:CRYSTAL in the extreme. Realistically any reliable sources could be added to the Mahsa Amini protests article but there isn't much here -- suggest a straight delete instead of a "merge" or redirect (very unlikely search term). Nomader  ( talk ) 15:06, 6 April 2023 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.