Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Theoclia (sister of Alexander Severus)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete and redirect to Julia Avita Mamaea. RL0919 (talk) 23:29, 25 January 2022 (UTC)

Theoclia (sister of Alexander Severus)

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This article covers a supposed sister of emperor Severus Alexander. But I've done some digging and it seems to me that the article might be confused. It seems to me that Theoclia (if she was real) and her possible marriage to Verus is thought to have been proposed during Severus reign 3, not when he was a young boy as he would have been in 218 when Marcianus daughter was killed. This work treats the two women as separate people, while this one argues that Theoclia is entirely made up. There is also the fact that Marcianus might have been Severus step-father, not father, so a daughter (if she was indeed married in 218) was probably too old to have been Julia Avita Mamaea's daughter, thus this woman may only have been Severus step-sister. I believe this article should be deleted and the link redirected to Julia Avita Mamaea ★Trekker (talk) 13:57, 3 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Dio mentions a daughter of Marcus Julius Gessius Marcianus who was killed in 218, she seems to have been married 1
 * The Historia Augusta claims that Alexander Severus wanted to marry his sister Theoclia to Gaius Julius Verus Maximus 2
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. ★Trekker (talk) 13:57, 3 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of History-related deletion discussions. ★Trekker (talk) 13:57, 3 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Support merge to Julia Avita Mamaea, as, even if she existed, she probably isn't notable enough for her own article. If the merge is performed, then it will be important to ensure that the new text at Julia Avita Mamaea is free of WP:OR / WP:SYNTH (I say this even though I'm pretty convinced that the argument about Theoclia's existence that you present here is correct). Furius (talk) 21:51, 3 January 2022 (UTC)

Relisting comment: Merge or delete? Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Sandstein   12:45, 11 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete This was written by an editor who liked to mass-create articles on non-notable but high-profile people, with only the slightest regard for WP:Verifiability (example). This article simply repeats what the Historia Augusta says without question, while adding some genealogical trivia to flesh it out. The former is unverifiable (unreliable primary source), the latter is already found elsewhere, so there's nothing even to merge (not even worth a redirect). It's all OR, SYNTH, or trivia. That Birley citation mentions in passing an unnamed sister who was supposedly murdered in 218, but you don't need a merger to use that source and mention the fact elsewhere, and there is nothing else of value here. Avilich (talk) 22:57, 3 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete At best should be a curious footnote in the dynasty article of a possible relative mentioned by a not necessarily reliable primary source, for reasons mentioned above. SpartaN (talk) 17:24, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Royalty and nobility-related deletion discussions. Necrothesp (talk) 16:21, 5 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Italy-related deletion discussions. Necrothesp (talk) 16:21, 5 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Merge to her mother. For ancient history, primary sources are all we have.  Whether we believe the sources is a matter of historical interpretation.  Merging leaves a redirect, which means that what little we do know on the lady remains available.  Peterkingiron (talk) 15:44, 7 January 2022 (UTC)
 * This isn't a case of notability where the infomation can be simply transferred elsewhere, this is a case of the content being unverifiable or put together through original research, which means it's not merge material, as you have been told several times. Avilich (talk) 19:05, 7 January 2022 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Sandstein   22:27, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete/Redirect Anything sourced to the Historia Augusta is likely to be garbage, if there are no other sources covering them then it should be deleted. Hemiauchenia (talk) 01:30, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Delete/Redirect -Agreed, needs more than one source to establish what is going here, for this person who possibly didn't exist. Deathlibrarian (talk) 09:34, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete - WP:V and WP:OR concerns with merging. Agricolae (talk) 21:00, 20 January 2022 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.