Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Thi Be Nguyen


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. – bradv  🍁  23:04, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

Thi Be Nguyen

 * – ( View AfD View log )

Semi-advertorialized article about a documentary filmmaker and philanthropist, not properly referenced for the purposes of establishing her notability. Of the 18 footnotes here, just one is a real piece of notability-supporting media coverage about her, and even that piece isn't covering her in an "inherently" notable context that would guarantee her an article — it's just covering her in the context of winning a minor local award that isn't prominent enough to confer an instant WP:ANYBIO pass all by itself. All of the 17 other footnotes are to sources that cannot establish notability, such as the self-published websites of directly affiliated organizations, film directories like IMDb or Cinoche, student media, blogs, a piece where she's the bylined author and not the subject, and several Q&A interviews where she's quoted speaking about a subject (but notability is established by sources in which she is the subject who's being spoken about, not by sources in which she's doing the speaking.) Nothing stated here is "inherently" notable enough to exempt her from having to have much better references than this — as always, wikinotability is not established by the ability to technically verify a fact in primary sources, but by the amount of journalistic coverage she has or hasn't received about the fact in media. Also probable conflict of interest, as the article was created by a WP:SPA who has never contributed to Wikipedia on any other topic but Nguyen and one of her business partners — and who also self-moved their own work on this from draft to mainspace without ever submitting it for a proper AFC review. Bearcat (talk) 15:03, 24 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions. Bearcat (talk) 15:03, 24 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Canada-related deletion discussions. Bearcat (talk) 15:03, 24 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. AleatoryPonderings (talk) 15:26, 24 September 2020 (UTC)

In support of not deleting the article, Nguyen has received the Top20 Personality of the year in diversity Award which is a provincial award alongside the Minister Kathleen Weil. She has won 2 awards for her documentary as recognized by IMDB below. Nguyen's productions has the support of TéléFilm Canada with links below.

We've also been informed that articles on her and her achievements will come out in FORBES and JOURNAL LES AFFAIRES in the month of October 2020. How can changes be made to this article so to maintain its existence. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt6859748/awards?ref_=tt_awd https://telefilm.ca/en/news-releases/half-19-documentaries-receiving-funding-will-produced-directed-written-women https://telefilm.ca/en/industry-advisories/sixteen-documentaries-supported-by-telefilm-canada-and-the-rogers-group-of-funds Phoenixx32 (talk) 00:23, 25 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Firstly, not every award that exists is an automatic free notability pass for a filmmaker. In film, establishing that a filmmaker is notable because of awards requires national-level awards like the Oscars, the BAFTAs or the Canadian Screen Awards, not just minor film festivals like "Canada China" or "Impact Docs" — and "TOP 20 personalities of diversity" is not a major notability-making award, either: even a basic WP:ANYBIO pass requires top-level distinctions like the Order of Canada, not just every single award that exists in the world.
 * Secondly, notability cannot be referenced to primary sources like IMDb or Telefilm — to be notable enough for a Wikipedia article, a person (regardless of her achievements) has to be referenced to media coverage about her in reliable sources. And not interviews where she's talking about herself or other things in the first person, either: sources where other people are independently writing or speaking about the significance of her work in the third person. Simply put, nothing you can say about her counts as a notability claim at all until journalists have reported it as news in real media. If you have to source a statement to a directly affiliated person or organization's own self-published website about themselves, because media coverage reporting the statement as news does not exist, then that statement is automatically not notable enough to guarantee inclusion in Wikipedia — it doesn't count as a notability claim until media consider it important enough to write a news story about it.
 * Thirdly, we don't keep articles just because people claim that media coverage that doesn't already exist today is going to exist in the future. That's a thing that anybody can simply say about absolutely anything or anybody that exists, and even about things that don't actually exist at all — so if just saying that new media coverage that doesn't already exist today is in the pipeline to come out in the future were all it took to shut down a deletion discussion, then even outright hoaxes wouldn't be deletable anymore. So we don't create or keep articles on the expectation of future media coverage that doesn't already exist yet — if and when such coverage does get published, then we can recreate an article if the new sources genuinely establish the topic's notability, but until that time we can only evaluate sources that have already been published.
 * So in order to save the article, what you need to do is show that she's already been the subject of a lot more than just one piece of third party media coverage about her accomplishments. Bearcat (talk) 13:28, 26 September 2020 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Sandstein   19:57, 2 October 2020 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Delete Fails WP:GNG and WP:FILMMAKER. While I found additional interviews with Nguyen  and routine coverage about the opening of her exhibit  I could not find any independant coverage of her work to satisfy WP:GNG, and the sources in the article do not supply the notability needed. I searched French Canadian newspapers and websites but did not find additional sources. I also searched Google, JSTOR, ProQuest, Gale and NYT. Z1720 (talk) 01:49, 8 October 2020 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Sandstein   20:43, 10 October 2020 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ‑Scottywong | [babble] ||  15:54, 19 October 2020 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.