Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Thimio Gogozoto


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. Lacking a citation for that medal, there's nothing here. No prejudice to recreation if reliable sources covering the gentleman in depth should be discovered. Shimeru (talk) 05:48, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Thimio Gogozoto

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Fails WP:NOTABLE, just another combatant in the Spanish Civil War among thousands. The only sources I can find on this guy are communist-era tracts put out by the Albanian Communist Party, where his name is listed among many, and no specific information about him is given. Same goes for the only source in the article. Many thousands volunteered to fight in Spanish Civil War; that by itself is not sufficient to make someone notable Athenean (talk) 22:26, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Albania-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 23:19, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Spain-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 23:20, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 23:20, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 23:20, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Italy-related deletion discussions. -- --SulmuesLet's talk 23:27, 1 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Comments: I see that the only source that's used in the article [] also lists his name among several others. There is not a single info. that treats him as individual.Alexikoua (talk) 05:26, 2 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Delete and merge to Garibaldi Battalion, it doesn't offer any additional (sourced) information, since info that treats him as individual is nowhere to be found.Alexikoua (talk) 11:25, 2 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Keep, he has been decorated posthumously by Albania. For the record sources don't have to be online for a subject to be notable and just because there aren't many Albanian sources online thath doesn't mean that a subject is not notable. I copied most of the information from the Directorate of Archives and I can even bring a photograph from books written by Albanian writers who have been or still are members of the Academy of Sciences of Albania.-- — ZjarriRrethues — talk 11:57, 2 June 2010 (UTC)


 * First of all, even if these sources exist, they are nowhere to be found in the article. The only source in the article is a link to a Spanish embassy website.  Second, assuming these sources do exist, that still doesn't make him notable.  He was born in northwestern Greece, he went to study in France, joined the Garibaldi battalion, and got killed.  He was then posthumously decorated.  So what?  Thousands upon thousands were decorated, both by Spain and their home countries.  That alone does not make one notable.  Joining the Garibaldi battalion does not make one notable.  Studying in France does not make one notable.  Seems to me that you seem to think this guy is notable because he was Albanian and born in Greece, which to you somehow "proves" that north-western Greece is "Albanian" land.   Being a Cham Albanian, however, is not by itself sufficient to make one notable.  Athenean (talk) 16:55, 2 June 2010 (UTC)


 * I started that article as part of articles related to Albanians that joined the Republicans in the Spanish Civil War not because he was a Cham Albanian, but that seems to be your rationale not mine. I have started other similar articles like Petro Marko, a DYK article.-- — ZjarriRrethues — talk 17:51, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Zjarri: Please do not change the subject. As you claim Marko was primarily known as.... Albanian author. Also Gogozoto is mentioned together with several others like: Zef Hoti, Urfi Agolli, Teni Konomi, Asim Vokshi, Musa Fratari, Ramiz Varvarica, Thimio Gogozoto y Xhemal Kada, Daut Muço Podgora. Mysteriously Gogozoto has his own article. Moreover, as you already stated there are a number of sources offline, but unfortunately, someone based on offline stuff can claim everything (we have serious wp:verify issues).Alexikoua (talk) 19:42, 2 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Delete Fails WP:BIO. Makes no claim of notability except serving? Flag officers are the only inherently notable military ranks. No significant coverage. Note: stop trying to lawyer WP:V, offline sources are perfectly acceptable, that's why WP:AGF.--Savonneux (talk) 23:52, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Just for the record, in the past various editors tried to misuse specific sources in order to support a pro-Albanian pov, using works by Kretsi, Hart etc (before these works become accesible online), or even misinterpreting snippets they found in googlebooks (latest case Talk:Souliotes). This has nothing to do with wp:agf.Alexikoua (talk) 12:15, 6 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Keep notable to have his own article like the references prove.-- Kënga  Jonë  15:55, 6 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Delete, not notable, no reliable sources of note Megistias (talk) 18:38, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep an Albanian antifascst that joined an the Garibaldi Battalion in the eve of world War II is an interesting fact and a wikipedia article about him can exist, not only flaf officier can have an article but also soldier that recived a secoration loke Gogozoto. User:Lucifero4
 * Keep, as per Lucifero4. I don't expect others to know all Albanian figures. In Albanian history he is notable and has been decorated by the president for his activity. Aigest (talk) 08:25, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep per Lucifero, KengaJone, Aigest, and ZjarriRrethues. He was recepient of Per Merita Patriotike Patriotic Meritsmedal,, awarded by law of 1962, which is at the same level of the For Defense of the Socialist Homeland medal. These two medals were some of the highest recognitions that Socialist Albania could provide in 50 years (along with (People's Hero of Albania and Skanderbeg's Order)). The receipt of such medal alone makes this person notable. These medals have been awarded only to a handful of people. In addition it was not a one event person. He was notable because he was the only fallen from the region of Chameria, he was notable because he was an Albanian who participated in the Spanish Civil War in the Garibaldi Battalion, he was notable because he was the recipient of an extremely valuable medal from his country. If we add the fact that he was a volunteer to help in the antifascist war in Spain and gave his life for this. Some of the best people of Albania gave their lives in the Civil War in Spain: it was 4-5 of them and probably 40-50 Albanians participated overall in the Civil War. They were some of the best people inspired with international antifascist ideas and each one of them will deserve an article. It's an interesting article and for now it's just a stub, but other info, which is offline might be added. However there is plenty of notability if that's the concern. --SulmuesLet's talk 11:27, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
 * His having been from Chameria has nothing to do with notability. His notability is because he was a 'recipient of an extremely valuable medal'. Keep if that can be verified. DS (talk) 21:23, 7 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Comment: Why I have the feeling that all this is a wp:or concert. God knows if something of the above ever happened.Alexikoua (talk) 11:41, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Being Albanian and fighting in the Spanish Civil War is not sufficient to make one notable. Thousands of people from all over the world fought in that war.  That doesn't mean they each deserve their own article.  Neither is ethnicity a source of notability:  Are Albanian volunteers more notable than Latvian or a Hungarian volunteers?  And where does this end?  Are Albanians simply more notable for being Albanian?  The other point the "keep" votes miss is that there is no material specific to this person:  His name is just mentioned along with dozens of others, just as we would expect for someone who is not notable, but whose article was created solely for the usual irredentist POV reasons.  Athenean (talk) 17:13, 7 June 2010 (UTC)


 * He has been decorated by the People's Republic of Albania after his death. That fact is important as a sign of notability.-- — ZjarriRrethues — talk 17:18, 7 June 2010 (UTC)


 * You mean the totalitarian Stalinist regime, which decorated thousands of others, whomever it pleased, for whatever reasons it pleased (and usually not the best of reasons). Athenean (talk) 17:20, 7 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Athenean, I'm not sure if Presidents in western democracies hold any referendums when they award medals. As far as I am concerned Wikipedia does not make any distinction to the form of government as to notability, so please stop baiting people with these totally inappropriate remarks. --SulmuesLet's talk 17:45, 7 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Receiving a medal from a totalitarian dictatorship does not make one notable. Sorry, but that's just how I see it.  Not baiting anyone.  Now, if we were to create an article about every single individual who ever received a medal from a government (regardless of its type), throughout history....we'd run out of server space.  Athenean (talk) 17:49, 7 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Delete, he isn't notable. His name is just mentioned among several other soldiers, nothing to treat him as a distinct person.CrazyMartini (talk) 19:48, 7 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Keep Notable because of decoration by the People's Republic of Albania.--I Pakapshem (talk) 22:20, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.