Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Thomas Adams (organist)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Consensus that the sources provided in this discussion make the subject notable exists. However, the article as of right now should be expanded with sources to avoid being nominated for deletion again.

No prejudice against merging if it is found later that the sources fail to produce a reasonably detailed article per WP:NCOMPOSER. A rough overview of the sources provided here suggests merging should not be ignored yet. (non-admin closure) ~ Aseleste  (t, e &#124; c, l) 03:21, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

Thomas Adams (organist)

 * – ( View AfD View log )

Contested PROD. Fails WP:GNG and WP:NMUSIC. No significant coverage found and no indication that he composed any notable works. Unsourced and tagged for notability since 2011. Lennart97 (talk) 17:34, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions. Lennart97 (talk) 17:34, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of England-related deletion discussions. Lennart97 (talk) 17:34, 10 March 2021 (UTC)


 * Keep There are numerous references to this composer and organist – see the search links above and works such as British Composer Profiles. But one complication is that this is a commmon name and so we have the similar Thomas Adams (musician) too.  The worst case is that we would merge the entries and explain to the reader which one is meant.  But note that the existence of multiple organists of this name demonstrates that the nomination is just a drive-by and WP:BEFORE has not been done. Andrew🐉(talk) 18:03, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Could you elaborate on which of these numerous references constitute significant coverage as defined by WP:GNG? And, as I don't have access to it, on what and how much the British Composer Profiles has to say about him? Lennart97 (talk) 19:03, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
 * We should start with what's already in the article. I found that the initial source was a deadlink and so have taken the trouble to fix that up.  This proves to be an extensive account of the subject.  The nominator should explain why they proposed the article for "uncontroversial deletion" without doing this investigation and fixup first.  Do they actually know anything about the subject and its sources or was this just a drive-by through a cleanup category? Andrew🐉(talk) 19:31, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I certainly followed that link, and while very extensive, there is no indication that this web page is a reliable source; it's also hardly independent, as the source is apparently St Alban's Church itself. I looked for, and found, passing references to this person, but nothing even close to significant coverage (much like the !vote below, or is that a drive-by !vote?). So yes, deletion seemed and still seems uncontroversial to me, but here we are. Could you now direct your energy at demonstrating the article's notability instead of focusing on pointless accusations? That would be way more helpful. Lennart97 (talk) 19:45, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
 * So, Lennart97 figured out the broken link but didn't think to fix it in the article. And they followed the link to read the 40 odd pages of material that it leads to.  And they conducted a thorough search of all the other sources out there, while managing to avoid confusion with the other Thomas Adams.  And they did all that in just six minutes between working on the Live in Austin, TX (ProjeKct Three album) and Passion Killers (band)!?  Well that's mighty impressive, but they still missed something.  As Gerda observantly points out below, there's an equivalent article on the German Wikipedia.  That's quite substantial now but it didn't start out like that.  The edit summary for the first entry reads "Artikel aus englischer Wikipedia übertragen und gegliedert".  That means that their article was based on this one and so we must retain the full edit history for attribution.  That's game over.  My !vote is now Speedy Keep. Andrew🐉(talk) 23:00, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
 * You could certainly learn a thing or two from Gerda, who knows how to civilly and constructively contribute to an AfD discussion :) Lennart97 (talk) 23:44, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 18:17, 10 March 2021 (UTC)

*Keep per sources added by Gerda, and since several journal articles discuss his works such as The Musical Times, The Journal of the Society of Arts, another one, among others. -- Ashley yoursmile!  07:59, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Merge to St Alban's Church, Holborn. I'm struggling to find sources that say anything more than he was organist there; the London Encyclopedia's coverage of the church doesn't mention him. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont)  19:25, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep and expand. Just look at the German article. What kind of coverage do you expect for a person from that period. I added IMSLP: several compositions. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:44, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
 * adding: * Thomas Adams (1785 - 1858) urresearch.rochester.edu -- this just seems to have the wrong life data, but same person, same works, publication 1912 doesn't match a 1785 birth, yes confusing.
 * https://www.jstor.org/stable/919311 - I have no access, but the Calvary is mentioned in The Musical Times in 1935.
 * update: I looked now, and is contains multiple mentioning of Adams' works by Novello (publisher). --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:04, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
 * https://books.google.de/books?id=M7G1CwAAQBAJ&pg=PA31 - list of Passion oratorios in English Cathedral Music and Liturgy in the Twentieth Century --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:03, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Holy Child, digitalized by a university --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:27, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Merge to St Alban's Church, Holborn. Acousmana (talk) 21:01, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep. On IMSLP, there are listings for Thomas Adams I (the earlier) and Thomas Adams II (the later). Several religious compositions of Thomas Adams II are listed as well as a long document on Thomas Adams' career, written by Christine Petch (31 March, 2005, revised August 2015) on behalf of St Alban's Church, Holborn. Listings for compositions and services can be found in "Back matter" of the Musical Times at jstor (normally available free without subscription). Mathsci (talk) 21:59, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep, obviously. Sparafucil (talk) 03:03, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * All the references you've given are for Thomas Adams I (1785–1858), i.e. an earlier generation of British organists (S. S. Wesley, W. T. Best, Elizabeth Stirling, etc). Thomas Adams II (1857-1918) is the organist being discussed. Mathsci (talk) 08:49, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Hi Mathsci, thank you for correcting me. Nonetheless, he is notable per sources added by Gerda. -- Ashley yoursmile!  09:40, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep per sources added by Gerda. -- Ashley yoursmile!  09:40, 13 March 2021 (UTC)


 * Keep as per the coverage identified in this discussion by Gerda that shows enough coverage for WP:GNG imv Atlantic306 (talk) 01:18, 17 March 2021 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.