Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Thomas Means


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep.  Sandstein  06:38, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

Thomas Means

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Came across this while trying to do research on Colonel John Means, who was a state representative in Ohio and South Carolina. There are only two sources - one is a local history book, the other appears to be an unreliable historical directory entry. I looked for other sources and found a couple, though one of these (the Yale alumni directory) is WP:PRIMARY and the fact he built a house on the national register of historic places doesn't help him pass WP:ANYBIO/WP:GNG. SportingFlyer  talk  18:47, 17 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Businesspeople-related deletion discussions. North America1000 21:15, 17 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Kentucky-related deletion discussions. North America1000 21:15, 17 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Ohio-related deletion discussions. North America1000 21:15, 17 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of South Carolina-related deletion discussions. North America1000 21:15, 17 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of History-related deletion discussions. North America1000 21:15, 17 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Delete- Not enough sources and nothing seems to be notable about him anyway. Articles like this prove my point that a local history book should not be counted when assessing notability, otherwise we would end up with an article for every family in town.--Rusf10 (talk) 03:11, 18 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Specifically, to which of the Wikipedia policies and guidelines do you object? gidonb (talk) 01:12, 23 June 2018 (UTC)
 * What you talking about, I don't object to any policies? The article should be deleted as per WP:ANYBIO & WP:GNG. There are only three sources for this article, presumably the most in-depth coverage is found in the local history book which is fine to use as a source, but does little to establish notability. The second source actually does have some decent coverage and the third barely has anything. The sources Icewiz added just below, are all trivial mentions. The subject lacks the kind of in-depth coverage required by GNG. If one more source with in-depth coverage was found, I would reconsider my vote though, at that point it would be borderline.--Rusf10 (talk) 01:32, 23 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Then I'll specify. Do you have a problem with Wikipedia's WP:GNG? gidonb (talk) 03:41, 23 June 2018 (UTC)
 * No, do you? What a stupid question.--Rusf10 (talk) 04:07, 23 June 2018 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Note - some additional sources - . It is borderline - this is beyond a every family in town article - but a rather significant business figure (iron & coal furnaces) that attracted national press attention in the day. Might be more beef in a newspaper archives.Icewhiz (talk) 12:11, 18 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Weak Keep. Not a clear-cut GNG pass, but sources (some added by Gidonb and 24.151.50.175) do seem to be sufficient.Icewhiz (talk) 17:04, 25 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Weak Keep - This article is heavily copied from Means' entry in The Biographical Cyclopædia and Portrait Gallery with an Historical Sketch of the State of Ohio, Volume III (I see this when I google any phrase from the biography section) and while that isn't strictly a copyright violation given the age of that book, it leaves a bad taste in the mouth, especially given that book isn't cited. That said, the 4th link Icewhiz provided is mis-attributed by google books, and is actually from a 1926 Industrial History of the United States book by Ralph Henry Gabriel published by Yale University Press, [The Pageant of America, a pictorial history of the United States, Volume 5 https://books.google.com/books?id=si5aAAAAYAAJ]. I think that entry, plus the entry in the Ohio history book (plus others) make for a compelling case that this individual is a suitable subject for an encyclopedia article. I am !voting weak because of the copying. Smmurphy(Talk) 16:13, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep. As others pointed out before me and from my own research, there is more than enough coverage in history books and the press to preserve this article. gidonb (talk) 01:38, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep -- The article makes it clear that he was a significant ironmasters (a category that I have just added). One of the early sources for Wikipedia for Britain was the old edition of Dictionary of National Biography, so that I see no objection to its use (or that of any other bio-dictionary, where there is no copy-vio issue).  Furthermore, the inclusion of such a person in a bio-dictionary is prima facie evidence of notability.  Being a pioneer of the introduction of hot blast.  I suspect that his Pine Grove was not the famous Pine Grove Iron Works, but an ironmaster with a string of ironworks ought to be notable.  Peterkingiron (talk) 16:51, 20 June 2018 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, The editor  whose username is Z0  08:29, 24 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep I had added a couple references and then gidonb did a much better job of adding references which satisfy WP:BASIC and earn a WP:HEY in my estimation. 24.151.50.175 (talk) 15:40, 25 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep Notability now clear. Johnbod (talk) 13:54, 28 June 2018 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.