Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Thoraldus


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result of the debate was delete. Mailer Diablo 11:17, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Thoraldus
Delete.The Thoraldus article is a hoax, intentionally or not. Essentially it's just a name in a charter upon which the author or his spurious source has invented a biography. Many of its claims are false, such as that on the "Earls" of Lennox. Archibald Lawries' Early Scottish Charters lists in its index only one Thoraldus (alternatively Toraldus or Thorandus in other charters), a man who was the archdeacon of Lothian (as Lothian did not have its own bishop, he is the next best thing). The charter he was talking about, (Lawrie CLIX, p. 122) does not contain the name Thoraldus, but Thor (a different name), so the entire article is nonsense. This Thor is known from other sources, Thor de Travernent, son of a man called Swain, and held the manor of Tranent in Haddingtonshire - i.e. he was a native Anglo-Saxon lord of the area, and nothing to do with Stirling. Articles like this are why people call wikipedia a "dumping ground". - Calgacus 15:14, 1 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Delete- complete rubbish Astrotrain 15:44, 1 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Delete I'm not qualified to say whether it is complete rubbish or not (although it does appear that way to my layman's eyes, and is undoubtedly very badly drafted), but I do believe that Calgacus is qualified, so I'll go with him. (It was me who reluctantly gave it a minor Wikification, but almost Afd'd it instead)--Mais oui! 20:37, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment This article was created by a brand-new User, here are the new User's contributions: . I am also a bit worried by their new Redirect: Strivelyn. It redirects to Stirling, but should it? Or should we bung it over to Redirects for deletion?--Mais oui! 20:43, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Reply, I wouldn't worry about the redirect from Strivelyn; it's quite harmless, and is a genuine early version of the name. The form of it in the charter he was talking about is Streuelyn/Strevelyn; but he got a lot of things wrong. The author seems to have been promoting a clan page. I reverted his edit to the Stirling page. The page has an "interesting" genealogy - quite spurious - and to make it work, the researcher changed the witness Tor vicecomite to Toraldo, Vicecomite; otherwise, the witness list he quotes is accurate, although either he or his source has murdered the Latin. The charter he talks about is preserved in the Liber de Calchou (lit. Kelso Book), it was issued about 1143 by David I to Kelso abbey, and it grants the Abbey use of a salt pan at a place called "Carsach". The only connection with Stirling was that it was issued there ("apud Streuelyn"). The author is correct that this Thor Swainsson was a sheriff ("vicecomes"), but other charters strongly suggest he was sheriff of Haddington (e.g. otherwise he only witnesses grants concerning territory in Lothian, where he would be an appropriate name). He can't have been sheriff of Stirling, because we know that the sheriff of Stirling in 1147 (a year when Sheriff Thor witnesses a grant made in Edinburgh to Dunfermline Abbey of a toft in Haddington), that the Sheriff of Stirling was a man called "Dufoc" (?Dubhtach). - Calgacus 22:20, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks. No Rfd then.--Mais oui! 20:23, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
 * How long does it normally take for deletion? This is kinda taking ages. - Calgacus 01:56, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Wait no more. :) - Mailer Diablo 11:17, 7 February 2006 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.