Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Thy Catafalque


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep.  — fetch ·  comms   02:17, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Thy Catafalque

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Fails WP:MUSIC. They don't have multiple releases on notable labels, they have no third party coverage in independent reliable sources; all I've managed to find is webzines and blogs. No claims to notability whatsoever. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 18:52, 30 July 2010 (UTC)
 * No, they don't have releases on notable labels, they are an underground act. However, I came across a review on Blabbermouth. It was deleted for an unknown reason. I might be able to find an archive. There is also a reference to Thy Catafalque on Post-Metal article. I am not sure either if this band meets Wikipedia's notability criteria, but I wouldn't delete it yet. If I don't find anything, probably the band is too underground for Wikipedia. — NikFreak  (leave message)

 Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:00, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Hungary-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 15:13, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 15:13, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.


 * Delete lacks coverage in independent reliable sources. duffbeerforme (talk) 12:04, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep There are plenty of sources on Hungarian pages. There might be some translations. Also, there are some less popular reliable sites mentioning this band. The band seems to be pretty secretive, although they are fairly known in Avant-garde metal and Post-metal community. Some sources might be found, enough to make a very short article. I say we keep it for now. — Gahonzu (talk) 15:35, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment Both look distinctly like trivial mention to me, although I don't speak Hungarian. A single paragraph mentioning them in relation to another band doesn't qualify as extensive coverage in multiple third-party sources (per WP:MUSIC). Blackmetalbaz (talk) 17:55, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep. I've added references from two ezines to the article. And four albums in total seem to be a good reason to WP:Ignore the requirement of notable labels. De728631 (talk) 23:39, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment The band has been named on kultura.hu, a website maintained by the Hungarian Ministry of National Resources: (the band pictured there is "Dalradia" though). I'd call that notable anyway. Here's an album review in Hungarian by what looks like a professional webzine. De728631 (talk) 13:41, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep The above sources seem to pass WP:RS Cy ber  ¤  De lia ''' 15:37, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep there are loads of reliable sources about them on the internet; e.g. this article sais that their album 'Róka hasa rádió' is distributed and sold worldwide; the page is the online form of a Hungarian regional newspaper 'Délmagyarország/Délvilág', currently ranked 31th in the country according to the daily circulation. Encyclopaedia Metallum has an English article about them; here you can read an interview with one of the founders of the band. Quart.hu, a Hungarian music-related news site cites Rate Your Music by claiming they had the 3rd best international album in 2009. Discogs.com also created a page about them in English. --Burrows (talk) 21:22, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep. Additional sources: Thy Catafalque on ProgArchives.com and a Thy Catafalque interview in English --Aranyos (talk) 07:14, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Comments The ezines clearly do not pass WP:RS in any way, shape or form. Prog Archives, like Discogs, MusicMight and Metal Archives do also not confer notability. That leaves the Hungarian sources, which I confess I am struggling to evaluate... being distributed worldwide is not a signifier of notability, and having released four albums is not grounds for invoking WP:IAR in the absence of coverage in reliable sources; in this case Hungarian media will be fine, as long as it is not simply a webzine. Print media distributed by a third-party source is your friend. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 17:51, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Quart.hu is clearly not just a webzine, it's a professional page with an imprint. The kultura site is also reliable (government material). As to the article claiming worldwide distribution, the record distribution itself is not relevant but the source is the electronic form of Délmagyarország, an established print medium, so it is reliable and does create notability. Avantgard-metal.com (note #1 in the article), while looking semi-professional, has published printed magazines before and has a valid board of editors; it should not be disregarded. Epidemie records, the band's label is also not so trivial: they publish Aidan Baker's side project ARC and Aarni (and their split-off Nihil Umbra). All this adds up to passing the significance threshold. De728631 (talk) 19:19, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Again, can't comment on the Hungarian sources as I'm struggling to ascertain their print status. However, I will repeat: Avant-garde-metal.com absolutely does not pass WP:RS; it has a couple of self-published releases (see fanzine) and is rejected out of hand. The label can't be used for notability without sourcing... notability is not inherited. I'd like to see more clarification about the Hungarian sources... the government one looked trivial (a single paragraph? Come on!) and the other you haven't made clear is print-published by a third-party source. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 20:29, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
 * While I absolutely agree that metalarchives is a not any better than the yellow pages and can't be used I don't see how avantgarde-metal.com is a fanzine; but I guess we have a general disagreement when it comes to interpreting WP:RS, especially regarding online content. You're also right that notability is not inherited by the label, but with Epidemie and even more with Soyuz Music, which is in fact highly notable in terms of releases, the band has at least published one record on a notable label (see #5 at WP:MUSIC). Add to that the fact that a government source picks up on the circumstance, albeit in passing, that the band's last album has made a narrow 2nd place in a national Metal contest out of 70 or so albums. And then there is a full length interview from December 2009 in Hungarian on the website of the Hammer World print magazine who had previously published a shortened version in their November 2009 print issue (Google translation of the header). Add to that four online album reviews ("cd kritikák" > T) by a site that was once a print mag (see their "kontakt" link) plus quart.hu and the Délmagyarország news site. Sum it all up: notability established. De728631 (talk) 18:15, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Found this too: album review by powermetal.de, a German for profit website. De728631 (talk) 17:59, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.