Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tiffany Apan


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   no consensus. One two three... 15:54, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Tiffany Apan

 * ( [ delete] ) – (View AfD) (View log)

This singer-songwriter appears to have received no significant coverage in reliable sources. See this all-dates Google news search and a web search. In addition, the primary editor of this article, whose username is the same as the subject's record label) appears to have a CoI, indicating less than objective article creation criteria in the first place. Bongo  matic  13:28, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
 * In response to comment below, here is an enumeration of currently listed sources:
 * Interview on RAYSREALM. Blog&mdash;not reliable source.
 * Whispers Want to Holler in Pittsburgh Post Gazette. No suggestion of significant coverage.
 * Celestial Voices. Blog&mdash;not reliable source.
 * Review on Eufonia Radio and Reviews. Appears to be a blog&mdash;not reliable source.
 * Music World Radio. User comment&mdash;not reliable source.
 * Ray's Realm Webzine Top 10 in 2008. Blog&mdash;not reliable source.
 * The Rising Sun Interview 2007. Blog/self-published&mdash;not reliable source.
 * Sea of Tranquility Webzine. Not reliable source.
 * Metal Maidens. Not reliable source.


 * All Music Guide. No suggestion of significant coverage (unable to find anything beyond directory listing of including overview, discography, and songs&mdash;no reviews, biography, charts, or awards).
 * Tiffany to appear with Rockabilly Hall of Fame artist, Chuck Owston on Blood and Thunder album. Trivial coverage (of specific sort not admissible for notability per WP:MUSIC) in non-reliable source.
 * Women in Music Interview with Shelia M. Goss. Not reliable source.
 * Poetry In Motion by Ray Dorsey. Blog&mdash;not reliable source.
 * Interview with the Music Freelancer. Blog&mdash;not reliable source.
 * Bongo matic  08:56, 6 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete non-notable multi-talented entertainer, fails WP:ENTERTAINER. Drawn Some (talk) 18:18, 5 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Comment First of all, PoetsLabyrinth is not the first record label to give an artist a Wikipedia page so I don't see what that has to do with anything. Second, the artist does have a growing fan following worldwide.  The article is still new and there are still a good deal of articles that still have yet to go up.  While I understand where the nominator is coming from (for example, the artist has not done anything like winning a grammy), there are a few other artists with similar articles and coverage to this artist on this site that have not been deleted or appear to be up for deletion.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by PoetsLabyrinth (talk • contribs) 05:15, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
 * There are plenty of articles that should be deleted, but haven't yet been noticed, or differ from the article you wrote on key points. Read up on WP:MUSIC and it should be easy to get the article up to scratch. Also, WP:COI, while not a reason for deletion, is still an issue that deserves your attention. - Mgm|(talk) 08:35, 6 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep At least until the nominator can explain why they don't consider the list of sources included in the article to be significant or reliable. - Mgm|(talk) 08:35, 6 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Comment Thanks Mgm. I will look at that.  There are plenty of artists that have reviews and such listed as sources.  And as for the Music World Radio source, that was written by one of the station's DJs (DJ Grumpy) and not simply a 'user' on the stations site.  Eufonia Radio APPEARS to be a blog?  Well it either is or it isn't.  Thanks again, Mgm.  I will be looking into your suggestion.  As I said, this article is still new and I will admit, does need revising.  User;PoetsLabyrinth  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.239.202.136 (talk) 13:14, 6 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep As someone who is very new to Wikipedia, I'm still learning to use the services properly. Mgm gave me some suggestions and I'm open to any others.  As for the sources, they are completely independant of the artist and her affiliates.  They are NOT from the artist's personal blog or space.  The articles were written by individuals who were strangers to the artist and those related to her personally and professionally nor are they endorsements.  The ones I might agree might be a little questionable (as per the WP Guidlines) are the interviews and those can always be removed if not acceptable.  As also per the guidlines (particularly for music)trivial sources seem to include things such as performance dates, release dates, contact info, and things of that nature.  I don't think any of the sources so far that were called trivial have that in them.  The Visions Magazine Online article involves the artist being SPOKEN OF by another artist with whom she is to work.  The artist has also recieved rotation nationally and internationally on several radio stations and is starting to get tv rotation.  She was also the subject 2 times on radio shows that have pretty big national and international followings.  She has also appeared in films with several notables including a former daytime soap actress and former Twisted Sister frontman, Dee Snider.  She does also have a growing fan following worldwide and is even up for a few awards.  As I said before, I'm still tweaking the article, gathering sources, citations, and trying to make the notable parts not appear like an advertisement.  I'm going to continue the revision.  As I said, if anyone has any suggestions I'm more than willing to take them.  Thanks.  PoetsLabyrinth  —Preceding unsigned comment added by PoetsLabyrinth (talk • contribs) 02:24, 7 May 2009 (UTC)  — PoetsLabyrinth (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Xymmax  So let it be written   So let it be done  02:31, 13 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Comment As far as the lack of contributions go, it's because we are still new to Wikipedia. This account has only been active for barely a little over a month and we don't have time to spend all day on the computer.  I have asked for help and pointers so we can not only make the articles we create turn out well but so we also make good contributions to the site.  This is not the only article we plan to work on.  We're still learning the ropes.  Give us time and a chance, please.-PoetsLabyrinth  —Preceding unsigned comment added by PoetsLabyrinth (talk • contribs) 02:19, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * To the contrary, the record of your contributions indicates that your presence in Wikipedia is solely to introduce promotional material into Wikipedia, material that you have an economic interest in, an activity discouraged by Wikipedia's conflict of interest guidelines. In fact, your edit record shows that you have abundant time to spend making such edits to the encyclopedia. Bongo  matic  02:23, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually, it doesn't prove anything except that the account is only a month old. Case in point, I'm a newcomer.  As I stated before, this is not the only record label that has created a Wiki page for an artist.  I can name a couple others, but I'm not out to throw people under the bus.  How can you make a judgment based on only a month's worth of records?  I can understand if the account was a few months old and this was still the only article we had done.  I have actually visited other areas on Wikipedia and have been trying to read up on the guidlines.  There are other musical artists', actors' (with whom we have no affiliation and are merely fans of), and topics' articles that I have paid quick visits to and plan to edit and add to but haven't had time yet seeing as I've had to try and fix this article as it was nominated for deletion.  As a result, I pretty much had to spend more time fixing this article instead of contributing to the other articles I would like to.  We are attempting to write this in accordance with Wikipedia guidlines.  As for the abundance of time, well..once again, I sort of had to make more time seeing as the article was nominated for deletion.  In a way, this kind of was a good thing because it kind of forced me to read up on Wiki guidelines and attempt to learn quicker.  I was given some pointers by some other users that I have been trying to put to use.  Like I said, please give us time and a chance.-PoetsLabyrinth
 * I didn't say "prove", I said "indicate" and "show". And the edit record (and the comment above) demonstrate that topics you have an economic tie to are your primary motives for editing. There is no rebuttal to the WP:COI point&mdash;even the use of the word "we" and the phrase "had to" indicate a corporate purpose. Bongo  matic  03:31, 19 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Starting this article was one of the reasons for joining Wikipedia, I'll admit but I also wanted to contribute to other articles I'm interested in too. The main reason for starting this article was because several of the artist's peers have Wikipedia pages (see some of the internal links in the article) and the artist has a growing fanbase who want to know more about her and I'm sure that's part of why some other labels began wiki pages about their artists as well.  Advertisement had nothing to do with it.  If I wanted to use this as a means to simply advertise the artist, I would have started this article alot sooner (ie when the debut full length album came out) as the artist has been around alot longer than the article has been and her debut album has been out for a little over a year, the EPs are about two years old, and some of the other projects are actually older than the EPs.  Like I said, the account is only a month old so it doesn't indicate anything.  Maybe if the article wasn't up for deletion, I could spend more time with other articles.  I believe I'm doing what alot people would do if their article was up for deletion: trying to fix it so that it does meet Wikipedian guidlines.  Maybe starting with this article wasn't the wisest move (and I'm clearly learning the hard way) but don't the guidlines also say that going in and accusing someone of such things also discouraged?  Doesn't it also encourage welcoming a newcomer and helping them improve their articles?  While there may not be a rebuttal to the COI, another experienced Wiki user stated above that while such a thing is cause for attention but not a reason for deletion.  I've started editing other articles and hope to continue to do so and end this conversation.  But I do thank you for actually helping me become a better editor:)-PoetsLabyrinth  —Preceding unsigned comment added by PoetsLabyrinth (talk • contribs) 04:15, 19 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions.  — Paul Erik  (talk) (contribs) 05:58, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete with help from Bongomatic analysis the subject lacks significant coverage in independent reliable sources. Radio rotation section lacks sourcing and there is no indication that any is nationally by any major radio network. Nothing else in wp:music appears to be satisfied. Duffbeerforme (talk) 08:01, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

 Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, MacMed talk to me! what have i done?  11:27, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment I decided I just might erase the content and let the admins do the rest. I could argue this til we're all blue in the face, but it just isn't worth the headache.  Thank you.--PoetsLabyrinth  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.239.202.136 (talk) 19:46, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment BUT, I will say that the wp:music is satisfied by appearing on compilation CDs including the Cats n Clawz compilation CD (which is sited) that is released through Fireworks Magazine, a long running and adequately popular music magazine in the United Kingdom that has interviewed bands such as Queensryche and The Darkness (see external link in the article). She also had a column written about her in Fireworks when she appeared on the Cats n Clawz comp CD.  I also believe that recieving a half hour long or more worth of coverage on a nationally known radio show also satisfies wp:music.  The artist was the subject of two nationally known radio shows.  In December of 2006, she was the subject for an interview segment on Deadpit radio and in 2008, the Backseat Mogul Show (see external link).  I'm still hunting for a citation for the latter; but if you visit Deadpit radio's wiki page and view their links and even just go to their website, you will see that Deadpit radio has a significany cult following, has interviewed many notables, and they have over 100,000 listeners.  The Deadpit radio archives (which offer the dates of the artist's appearance and well as the appearance of her music) also prove that such events did take place.  Now, if one is considering things likeRolling Stone as the only adequate sources, then these may not be acceptable.  But, I do feel that these are notable sources as they all have significant followings, are notable in their field, and have gained access to interviews with several notables.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by PoetsLabyrinth (talk • contribs) 22:45, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.


 * Delete or Userfy. I'll give kudos to the article's author for keeping a level head (refreshing from the other two AFDs I've seen where people have gone full blown drama mode), and to Ms. Apan for appearing in a Troma film. =) Unfortunately, I hate to say it, but the nom is right, there aren't any reliable sources, regretfully.  No prejudice to recreation once we find something.  I'll note to PoetsLabyrinth, as well, that it's no big issue to recreate an article once we get those sources and/or we can prove notability, if the article is deleted - we either just create a new one (thus the userfy) or undelete it through WP:DRV. -- Dennis The Tiger   (Rawr and stuff) 14:46, 21 May 2009 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.