Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tim Collins (baseball)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. A discussion in support of merging can be held on the article's talk page. Regards,   A rbitrarily 0    ( talk ) 04:09, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

Tim Collins (baseball)

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Playing in a farm team doesn't meet WP:ATHLETE. Cynof G  avuf 08:38, 27 February 2010 (UTC) *Delete, fails WP:ATHLETE. --Bigtimepeace | talk | contribs 23:16, 27 February 2010 (UTC) See my comment below. --Bigtimepeace | talk | contribs 01:54, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Athletes-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 15:36, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Baseball-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 15:36, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Merge to Toronto Blue Jays minor league players. You assertion is incorrect. Though a farm team is not the highest professional level, it is "fully professional" per WP:ATH. In baseball, minor leaguers get paid, making it a profession (See Professional baseball) I do, however, agree that the subject in question fails notability on its own, but a merge seems more appropriate. --Brian Halvorsen (talk) 23:33, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Change to Keep. The article not easily meets WP:GNG, WP:ATH, and WP:WPBB/N. --Brian Halvorsen (talk) 00:30, 28 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Delete He has not pitched a major league game and is not a top prospect.--Yankees10 02:15, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Massachusetts-related deletion discussions.  —Brian Halvorsen (talk) 03:25, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment - Minor leaguers mey not automatically be notable, but they certainly can be, especially if they have independent coverage in reliable sources as this one does. Rlendog (talk) 15:31, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep: There's this persistent - and incorrect - belief that WP:ATHLETE bars minor leaguers, and to them I can only say that if you want it to do so, work consensus around to get it to say so. The real text of WP:ATHLETE is that "fully professional" players qualify, and our general understanding is that AA ballplayers collect salaries.   RGTraynor  12:49, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I'll take your word for that, but as someone not very familiar with WP:ATHLETE I took the phrase "fully professional" to mean essentially "playing at the highest level" or something along those lines (i.e. I assume it excluded minor leaguers). If AA ballplayers are considered "fully professional" then okay, but probably that should be specified in the guideline, perhaps in a footnote (and are you saying single A players are not?). Assuming that's the standard I guess I would still take some issue with that (not that it matters for this AfD), as it would suggest that someone who plays AA ball for a few months, drops to single A, and then months later never plays again and spends the rest of their life in the sales business should have an article about them per WP:ATHLETE. Surely there are thousands of people like that throughout the history of baseball (and I'm sure other sports), and we definitely do not want articles about all of them. In any case if what you say is true regarding WP:ATHLETE (the wording in points 6 and 7 in the essay WikiProject Baseball/Notability seems to contradict it somewhat, but that is an essay) then apparently this should indeed be kept. --Bigtimepeace | talk | contribs 01:54, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
 * The belief among those who wrote up the essay on WikiProject Baseball is indeed that minor leaguers, even decade-long AAA veterans, are not notable. Of course, that essay remains their private opinion, and has no force over notability standards generally or WP:ATHLETE in particular.  There's certainly a widespread belief that WP:ATHLETE is too loose - which I share - but the only way around that is to change consensus on the guideline itself.   RGTraynor  11:47, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
 * That's fine, my main point was that if minor leaguers are indeed considered "fully professional" (and if that starts at AA for whatever reason) that should probably be explained in a footnote until consensus changes. It's not surprising that many people would read the guideline as excluding those in minor leagues in the view that they are partially but not "fully" professional. --Bigtimepeace | talk | contribs 01:22, 5 March 2010 (UTC)
 * One clarification on the statement "The belief among those who wrote up the essay on WikiProject Baseball is indeed that minor leaguers, even decade-long AAA veterans, are not notable." The essay on baseball notability says that minor leaguers are not inherently notable, but does not preclude the possibility that  they can be notable if they meet certain criteria (which I believe this player meets). Rlendog (talk) 02:05, 5 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Merge to Toronto Blue Jays minor league players. Spanneraol (talk) 04:24, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Merge to Toronto Blue Jays minor league players. Edward321 (talk) 15:46, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep - There has been much debate over the years as to whether minor league baseball players are "fully professional" per WP:ATHLETE. I am in the "fully professional" camp, especially once they get to AA.  While I don't nececssary think all minor leaguers need an article, I support the older version of the baseball notability essay which included minor league all stars.  Which Tim Collins apparantly has been. Rlendog (talk) 01:27, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
 * In addition, Collins has coverage by multiple independent reliabile sources, e.g., Baseball America and TSN, and thus satisfies WP:N as well as the current baseball notability essay. Of course, if not kept, this article should be merged per User:Spanneraol rather than deleted. Rlendog (talk) 01:31, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.