Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tim Hughes


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. Ther eis no reason to prefer non-christian media over christian media Spartaz Humbug! 03:48, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Tim Hughes

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Not notable outside Christian groups. Has had no main stream success, and is signed to minor independent record labels. Andrew Duffell (talk) 18:39, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete Fails WP:BAND, BP:BIO. scope_creep (talk) 20:16, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Christianity-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 20:19, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 20:19, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep Here I am to Worship has won a GMA Dove Award, (here) meaning he passes WP:MUSICBIO clause 8. Jclemens (talk) 20:47, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment I would hardly describe a Dove award as "a major music award". It is incomparable with the examples given in clause 8.Andrew Duffell (talk) 23:22, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment. Actually the GMA Dove Award is equivalent to the Country Music Awards or other genre-related music category. Cindamuse (talk) 02:10, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment Past precedent is that the GMA dove award is indeed a major music award--there wasn't consensus to add it explicitly to the list of major awards explicitly mentioned, but it's a national genre-specific award, not some local music festival prize. The CMA comparison is apt--even though the Doves are smaller, they're still in the same category. Jclemens (talk) 05:14, 29 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Delete, although he may be a successful Christian artist with a well-known single, I do not see him as notable. This article seems to have been written along with Ben Cantelon, who also lacks notability. --Willthacheerleader18 (talk) 23:57, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment Many of his albums, which also seem un-notable, have articles on wikipedia (Here I Am to Worship, Happy Day (album), Holding Nothing Back, When Silence Falls). Should they also be proposed for deletion? --Willthacheerleader18 (talk) 00:02, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment Let's wait for the outcome of this XFD first. If it passes, then yes, they probably should be nominated.Andrew Duffell (talk) 00:05, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
 * comment since it won't pass (he's clearly notable, arguments to the contrary notwithstanding), the better question should be whether the albums should be kept separately or merged into the artist. Jclemens (talk) 05:17, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment. I think his albums should either be kept separate as (all had hit songs) or merged into a discography. I'll probably spend some time between the drives over the next month or so to periodically update his article to make sure that all areas of notability are evident. In my opinion, I think it's clear that the article really doesn't do his career justice. It's a shame this article isn't more thorough. Any thoughts on a discography page? Cindamuse (talk) 06:01, 29 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Speedy Keep. Tim Hughes meets every criteria to establish notability within WP:ARTIST, five of the criteria for WP:COMPOSER, at least seven of WP:MUSICBIO, and every criteria listed under the Others section of WP:MUSICBIO. He is an internationally known, award-winning singer, songwriter, worship leader, conference speaker, educator, and author. He has had tremendous international success in the mainstream gospel/worship genre. Survivor Records is an independent label with a history of more than a few years and a roster of performers, many of which are notable worldwide. His music is distributed worldwide by EMI and widely available to the general public throughout the world, including Walmart, B&N, and local Christian bookstores. His songs are used in worship in churches on a global scale. His music is widely covered by other artists, in particular, his Here I Am to Worship (song), which is considered the biggest modern worship anthem ever by CCLI and remained at the top of the most successful (in royalties) and requested songs on the CCLI charts for over two years. The song continues to be listed in the Top 5 most successful songs during each royalty payout series each year. He is regarded as an important figure in the field of worship and is widely (covered) by his peers. He is the head of Worship Central, which is a global school of worship attended by thousands of people each year. He has created and played a major role in a significant, well-known, and collective body of work, that has been the subject of several independent books and of multiple independent periodical (magazine) articles and reviews. The work of Hughes has become a significant monument in the field of worship; has been a substantial part of a significant exhibition, as presented through global conferences, festivals, and exhibitions focusing on Christian music, Church administration, and Christian workers conferences; and has won significant critical attention and awards. Do I really need to go further? Please check out the source links above using the search terms "Tim Hughes" and worship. If interested beyond the news, books, scholar, and images link above (which all provide significant sources), view a video of Hughes with Darlene Zschech at (YouTube videos not offered to establish notability). Cindamuse (talk) 02:10, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Suggest merge with Holy Trinity Brompton. This is an extremely notable church, but notability is not inherited, so that a staff member will not be notable by working at HTB.  It will be necessary to add a new section "staff".  Peterkingiron (talk) 21:24, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment. While Hughes may be on staff, his success, in all aspects, is highly independent of the church of which he is involved. The notability of Hughes is far more notable than the church. Hughes is known worldwide, the church is not. Cindamuse (talk) 01:44, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete, Clearly lacks notability. The sources are very weak - unless something can be found offering a more mainstream perspective (non-Christian press or media?). Otherwise the article will have a very narrow base. Contaldo80 (talk) 10:22, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Please clarify your argument--are you asserting that Christian press per se cannot be independent RS'es for a Christian artist? How about the Dayton Daily News as a source?  Likewise, I see nothing to indicate that The (Augusta) Metro Spirit is inappropriate in this case. Jclemens (talk) 02:08, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Perhaps I've missed them but as far as I can see there are no formal references to the Dayton Daily News or the Metro Spirit in the article. Contaldo80 (talk) 09:01, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment. This article has been nominated due to a presumed lack of notability. Sources offered in this AfD are presented to counteract that assumption. When the AfD is closed, the article will either be deleted or edited appropriately by adding content and citations within the article itself. Citations can be culled from reliable sources using the following links. That said, while all editors are welcome to participate in an AfD discussion, Contaldo80's participation and recommendations are questionable, arriving due to my nomination of an article that s/he created. Cindamuse (talk) 22:38, 1 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Comment. Thanks Cindamuse. I suggest we avoid making personal attacks. I am entitled to contribute to articles the same as everyone else. My plea is for consistency without favoritism.Contaldo80 (talk) 10:09, 2 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Keep, maybe Merge to the album article. As Jclemens points out, there is reason to think that the Dove award, given its status as a major award for a genre, is sufficient to meet notability guidelines. The one caveat would be that there is apparently very little independently sourced material on available on the subject. That being the case, at this point, I could see merging with the album article. If he were to win additional major awards, or if there were more substantive biographical material later, then a reseparation might be reasonable. John Carter (talk) 15:42, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment. Actually, there is an large amount of information and reliable secondary and third-party sources with which to develop a thorough and comprehensive article, which I have committed to working on. This guy is HUGE and has been a vital influence on the Christian world. Not only that, his professional background is quite extensive and varied that I envision this article will mostly end up being a bit lengthy, while remaining within readable prose guidelines. He has made a huge impact in every area of his professional life. Seriously, the current article is an AMAZINGLY inadequate representation of his background and professional career. Merging to an album article would be inappropriate, since Hughes has tremendous notability in several areas outside of his many albums. Cindamuse (talk) 19:12, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.