Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tim Palmer (NZ)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. Spartaz Humbug! 21:11, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Tim Palmer (NZ)

 * ( [ delete] ) – (View AfD) (View log)

A speedy tag has been removed by an IP. No assertion of notability.  Blanchardb - Me•MyEars•MyMouth - timed 22:40, 1 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Keep. Although I don't agree with the methods used by Mr Palmer and his group, I have to say a page about him will be good for all the organic farmers, including me. Djcostello (talk) 11:00, 2 October 2008 (UTC) — Djcostello (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.


 * Keep. I've seen this guy in Wellington rallying people outside Woolworths with his group. They want to rid NZ of unpure things and keep NZ 100% pure...pretty strange bloke but I guess that's why he's become a bit of a local/national legend. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ascii007 (talk • contribs) 08:20, 2 October 2008 (UTC)  — Ascii007 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.


 * Keep. I know Tim Palmer. He moved to Hawkesbay area a while ago to continue his passion for fruits and veg. Met him at Field Day this year. Got good tips on growing egg plants. Taneup (talk) 23:10, 1 October 2008 (UTC) — Taneup (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Okay, so you know him. But how does he fit the criteria in WP:PEOPLE? --  Blanchardb - Me•MyEars•MyMouth - timed 23:13, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
 *  KEEP comment. According to your requirements for notability and i quote " The topic of an article should be notable, or "worthy of notice"; that is, "significant, interesting, or unusual enough to deserve attention or to be recorded."[1] Notable in the sense of being "famous", or "popular" – although not irrelevant – is secondary." Tim Palmer meets several of these requirements, and noting that being famous is as said - secondary.  The guy is an eccentric enthusiast for fruit and vegetables, popular amongst the local and extended community.  Be honest, have you ever heard of a "fruit and vegetable activist"??  Popular with organic farmers, and hero of many New Zealand families striving towards nutricious excellence.  That is Tim Palmer.  Given a chance the wiki page will provide an informative and thorough description of a Kiwi legend. Taneup (talk) 01:16, 2 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. Jll (talk) 23:20, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. Unless that eggplant advice resulted in them frying themselves with added bacon I can't see any notability here. MadScot (talk) 23:43, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete I am not sure what a "fruit and vegetable activist" is (fights for their civil rights? maybe ADVOCATE?) but it would seem that speedy delete might even apply.  P HARMBOY  ( TALK ) 23:51, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
 * (Speedy) Delete No assertion of notability. CSD A7 bio candidate.  gnfnrf (talk) 04:21, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
 * KEEP!!! Tim Palmer and the Fruit and Vegetable Alliance although as weird as they are, are almost regarded as superheroes up in the central north island! The fact that his efforts are now recognised can only further help his cause.  Legend!Kiwialltheway (talk) 08:52, 2 October 2008 (UTC)--> — Kiwialltheway (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Comment. If "furthering his case" is the main purpose of this article, then it should be deleted per WP:SPAM. --  Blanchardb - Me•MyEars•MyMouth - timed 10:20, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment. I don't think the internet or "advertising" is something that the group is interested in. They are a sort of exclusive group of associates. But just like information "furthers the cause" of other theories like religion, maths, hygiene, etc, they do forward the message of natural food.Ascii007 (talk) 11:34, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of New Zealand-related deletion discussions.   -- the wub  "?!"  11:15, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment. I had a second read of the article and it doesn't seem to be "furthering his case". Its only presenting facts about a weird yet passionate guy. Djcostello (talk) 13:18, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete Wow, talk about a nonnotable guy. Nyttend (talk) 14:47, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete - No Google hits on this guy. Various orgs with similar names exist but the whole article feels like a hoax. No refs at all and suspicious levels of details in the article. - SimonLyall (talk) 18:26, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
 * COMMENT Are there any people who want to keep that are not Single Purpose Accounts? I mean, this is beginning to be almost too obvious. P HARMBOY ( TALK ) 19:18, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. I would have said this was simply a case of non-notability, but the SPAs make it more likely to be a hoax.- gadfium 19:51, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
 *  Must Keep Additional comment Unfortunately trying to make a decision from Canada or the USA could be considered biased and simply unfair, and Google doesn't answer everything. I don't want to get into a scrap here, but Blanket man from New Zealand made it into wiki who has done far less - sitting in one position along Lambton Quay footpath in Wellington with a blanket around him - wow!  Tim Palmer and his 'Alliance' at least actually stand for something! Sure Tim Palmer isn't famous, but again that is a secondary requirement as stated on wiki.  However the guy and his group are interesting and unusual perfectly valid for notability.  In terms of my single user account, i received an email from a university buddy saying one of his colleagues had posted something on TIm Palmer.  And then i see for some reason you're trying to get rid of him.  Be fair guys!  Let's get over the bureaucracy. Kiwialltheway (talk) 20:11, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment It's not a case of "trying to get rid of" anyone (well not for me, anyway). But if he's interesting and unusual, surely some part of the NZ media must have mentioned him, run an article on him or his group? You'll note that the Blanket Man article you mention cites print and broadcast media coverage - THAT'S what demonstrates notability, and that's what Tim needs, too. MadScot (talk) 20:48, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
 * comment So he isn't famous (by your admission), but he is interesting and unusal. According to Wikipedia policy, you have just made the ultimate argument to delete the article.  Interesting is specifically listed as a nonreason to keep an article (read about more at Arguments to avoid in deletion discussions.  Wikipedia isn't entertainment or a list of "characters", it is an encyclopedia.  P HARMBOY  ( TALK ) 20:56, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I forgot to add: Canadians and Americans are able to read articles in New Zealand and Australia, and Google spiders websites there as well as the USA.  Most of us do speak English and are smart enough to seek them out.  P HARMBOY  ( TALK ) 20:58, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
 * comment Once again Pharmboy you have missed the point. I understand what you are saying MadScot, and given a chance i'm sure info can be found.  No, Tim Palmer is not world famous for his and the 'Aliiances' activities, but are certainly notable amongst the rural community in New Zealand especially in the central north island.  His notability (or notoriety depending on who you are) has certainly been acknowledged by local newsagents and efforts will be made to exract those.  I hear what you're saying MadScot, but is nationwide media exposure essential for publication in Wikipedia? Don't forget, Blanket Man sits in the busiest part of capital city Wellington all day long.  Of course he's going to receive media exposure, but that's not how Tim and the ridiculously named (here goes) Fruit and Vegetable Alliance operate.  You have to remember these guys are known to perform brief demonstrations so media exposure is very difficult to obtain.  Surely viewers of Wikipedia would be amazed, amused, disgusted, enthusiadtic, or pleased to be informed about Tim and his group.  It just seems like you're trying to remove him straight away just because you can.Kiwialltheway (talk) 21:47, 2 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Keep. As the author I am obviously going to say KEEP. When I created the page I had no idea a simple article on Tim was going to cause so much controversy. Wikipedia or not, Tim Palmer will always remain in the hearts and minds of hardworking Kiwi families and the organic farming community.Rangi.hohepa (talk) 22:17, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
 * — Rangi.hohepa (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.


 * Keep. Nice to see a unique kiwi personality been recognized by wikipedia. Who are all these idiots who want this link to be deleted. They have no clue, do they? I say long live Tim the vege legend... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.203.13.24 (talk) 22:42, 2 October 2008 (UTC)  — 131.203.13.24 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Delete No sources, no assertion of notability.  Should have been speedied. Edward321 (talk) 23:25, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Speedy delete Utterly non-notable. The number of ghits from New Zealand sources for "Tim Palmer"+vegetable is an awe inspiring two - neither of which is this Tim Palmer - similar results (three ghits, none of them relevant) for "Tim Pamer" + Ohakune. Local organic growers seem to know nothing of him, either. Only keep !votes seem to be from SPAs. Grutness...wha?  00:04, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment As the article states Tim Palmer is popular among the central north island community. How many organic growers in the central north island have you talked to? And whats with the "ghits"? Have you insulted us or is it a typical case of The Fat Finger Syndrome? Rangi.hohepa (talk) 00:33, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Please take the time to read wp:notability which is the policy we all go by when it comes to establishing notability. If someone is popular in a small crowd and no media outlet has ever written about them, then by WIKIPEDIA STANDARDS, they are not notable.  If you want to change those standards and policies, this is not the place to do that.  This AFD is to discuss the applications of the policies, not how fair they are.  No one has a "right" to be in wikipedia, and it isn't an insult if someone isn't.  Taking it personal isn't helping your case.  P HARMBOY  ( TALK ) 00:43, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
 * "ghit" is "google hit" i.e. a positive result from a google search. it's not an insult, just shorthand in AfD discussions. I admit it sounds like an insult, but it isn't. MadScot (talk) 01:19, 3 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Delete What the impassioned keep voters don't seem to realize is that their own observations are not sufficient sources for an article. (don't worry nobody else's are either) All content must be backed by sources as required by the policy on verifiability, and I don't see any sources forthcoming. If they were to show up, it also needs a re-naming as abbreviations should not be used in article titles. Beeblebrox (talk) 03:15, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete - The Fruit and Vegetable Alliance is an International organisation, and although it has a New Zealand director his name is not Tim Palmer. No references found for a NZ organisation or person and it has hoax written all over it. dramatic (talk) 03:23, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete - appears to be a hoax from the beginning. The Ohakune carrot was unveiled in 1984, so it's a bit difficult to be born in its shade in 1978. Also, as the carrot is in the middle of a roundabout, giving birth just there would be somewhat uncomfortable. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 07:16, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment. I believe that the giant carrot installed at Ohakune is a tribute to a massive carrot that was grown and shown there in the 1970's. Anyway it seems that you guys have got your minds made up already...this blog will prove amusing when the "proper" news get some stories out on this (although i thought that there was local news on the expoits of Palmer)....i guess we need to wait for those references until this page goes aheadAscii007 (talk) 17:15, 4 October 2008 (UTC) — User:Ascii007 (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Strong Keep. I am not sure when and where Tim Palmer was born. However, this character truly does exist. People who know of him either love him dearly or hate him bitterly. For obvious reasons people who hate him think he is wired. I can relate to that. He is not someone I would have coffee with. On the other hand, people who love him thinks he is the best thing that happened to them since they were introduced to slice bed. Yes, I can relate with most of you who think what a weirdo, and Wikipidia shouldn’t tolerate people like Tim. Love him or hate him I strongly suggest we should keep him... —Preceding unsigned comment added by NBartel (talk • contribs) 10:17, 3 October 2008 (UTC)  — NBartel (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Can you provide reliable sources to back up any of what you stated here? This is to comply with Wikipedia's policy on verifiability. --  Blanchardb - Me•MyEars•MyMouth - timed 10:22, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete as not notable, nothing on NZ Herald or TVNZ, no references. Looks like another work of fiction. XLerate (talk) 23:10, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment Hey is there any sort of record for most single purpose voters in one AfD, we may be in the running here. Beeblebrox (talk) 17:37, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment Maybe it says something about the ignorance of Wiki that only a few select geeks get to pick & choose the articles....Ascii007 (talk) —Preceding undated comment was added at 20:23, 4 October 2008 (UTC).
 * Hey thanks for the insult, but as is obvious, any editor is free to participate in an AfD. Nevertheless, it is considered somewhat suspicious when a multitude of people with no prior edit history start participating in the same AfD. WP:SOCK and WP:MEAT and WP:SPA contain more information about this topic. Beeblebrox (talk) 20:28, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Are you saying it is suspicious when all the DELETE editors have thousands of edits each (average) and all the KEEPs just signed up for Wikipedia today and have only participated in this AFD? Couldn't that be just 100% pure coincidence?  That is no more unusual than flipping a coin and having it land HEADS 100 times in a row, or getting 100 bullseyes in a row while playing darts blindfolded.  P HARMBOY  ( TALK ) 20:41, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Good one buddy...go read about Type_I_and_type_II_errors...from your own source (apparently you should know it already!). Anyway I see that you guys reject things at a high rate so that erroneous information is "more likely" to be omitted, however, as per the referenced article, this high rejection rate means that some correct articles are rejected as well. Since this is the case I see that Wiki is not a source of news but a source of repetitive information which is useful for lazy people who claim to be doing research. I am glad however that others are sticking up for the right for this article to be included within Wiki...unfortunatly they too are disregarded. Ascii007 (talk) 21:09, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Hey you finally got something right, Wikipedia is not a news source and was never was intended to be one. WikiNews is, go bother them. Beeblebrox (talk) 21:12, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Even a broken watch is right twice a day. P HARMBOY  ( TALK ) 21:44, 4 October 2008 (UTC)


 * No worries, any time! Anyway thanks for the refs...they are totally useless & don't apply. Come to Welly & get in the know! Ascii007 (talk) 20:35, 4 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Delete. I find too many notability and verifiability concerns. - ¢Spender1983 (talk) 00:24, 5 October 2008 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.