Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Timeline of the Left-wing insurgency in Greece


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. The general opinion here is that this is a WP:NPOV fork of Terrorism in Greece, and the topic is better covered in the parent article. This seems like an unlikely search term, and there's currently no incoming links to this from mainspace, so I'm not going to redirect. -- RoySmith (talk) 15:22, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

Timeline of the Left-wing insurgency in Greece

 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

Duplicate of Terrorism_in_Greece – FenixFeather (talk) (Contribs) 21:03, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Comment I also want to note this related recently closed AfD discussion: Articles_for_deletion/Left-wing_insurgency_in_Greece – FenixFeather (talk) (Contribs) 21:06, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Greece-related deletion discussions. Eastmain (talk • contribs) 21:17, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions. Eastmain (talk • contribs) 21:17, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Politics-related deletion discussions. Eastmain (talk • contribs) 21:17, 7 September 2018 (UTC)


 * Delete - unnecessary content fork. Kirbanzo (talk) 23:36, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete per the arguments at Articles for deletion/Left-wing insurgency in Greece which apply here as well. K.e.coffman (talk) 00:13, 8 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep and rename to Timeline of the left-wing insurgency in Greece (low case).GreyShark (dibra) 21:08, 8 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Merge to Terrorism in Greece. I agree that this is an unneeded content fork (and the other article is much more comprehensive), but there are some referenced incidents included in this article that are not on the list in the Terrorism in Greece article that could be added there. PohranicniStraze (talk) 01:33, 9 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep and rename  as per GreyShark. This article is very well sourced, which was the primary concern people raise with the Left-wing insurgency in Greece article that was deleted. XavierGreen (talk) 14:27, 10 September 2018 (UTC)
 * The article is sourced, but none of the articles refer to this as an "insurgency". That's where the POV/OR comes in. Thus this article should be deleted in favor of the better, non-POV list at the terrorism page. – FenixFeather (talk) (Contribs) 16:20, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Per [|Wiki:Naming Conventions], "If there is no common name for the event and no generally accepted descriptive word, use a descriptive name that does not carry POV implications." Since this armed conflict has no common name., titling it Timeline of the Left-wing insurgency in Greece seems appropriate, no one has yet stated why they believe the term "insurgency" to be POV. The word insurgency is used quite frequently throughout Wikipedia article titles for a variety of armed conflicts of varying insensity. For examples see: Insurgency in Paraguay, Insurgency in Aceh, Naxalite–Maoist insurgency, Lord's Resistance Army insurgency, Insurgency in Manipur, Naxalite–Maoist insurgency, Insurgency in the Maghreb (2002–present), ect. As you said this article is well sourced, the armed conflict clearly happened, so there is no reason why the article should be deleted.XavierGreen (talk) 17:38, 12 September 2018 (UTC)


 * Delete as WP:OR and unneeded, since the Terrorism in Greece article has a better timeline without the dubious POV and with better context. Constantine  ✍  17:01, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Per [|Wiki:Naming Conventions] the word "Terrorism" is much more POV than the word "insurgency", to merge would cause a NPOV problem rather than solve one that doesn't exist.XavierGreen (talk) 17:27, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
 * You insist missing the point. The core of this whole debate is about WP:OR, which in this case reflects a certain POV interpretation of what these events are. The WP:OR is, as has been explained over and over again, the use of "insurgency", which is a specific phenomenon. There is a vast literature dealing with terrorism in Greece, especially left-wing terrorism, and, what is important, calling it that; I am Greek, have lived in Greece, and even in Greece that is the word used. I have yet to see, in both this AfD and the previous one, any indication that anyone outside Wikipedia uses the term "insurgency". By taking a string of events and applying your own analysis to it in calling it an insurgency, you are engaging in textbook WP:OR. Constantine  ✍  17:40, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
 * You clearly are asserting a Greek POV, this is not the Greek language wikipedia, its the english language wikipedia. In English, there is no common name for this armed conflict, per the Wiki naming conventions that I linked to above, in the instance that no common name for an event exists, a title that describes it is sufficient and wiki:OR need not apply. There is no POV connotation to the word "insurgency" in the english language, rather to the contrary the word "terrorism" does have POV connotations per the wiki naming conventions and the manual of style. You have still not stated why you believe the word "insurgency" is POV, as this article and its sourced clearly indicate several greek militant groups pursued a campaign of armed violence against the government. Indeed the wikipedia article for insurgency clearly states that the tactics various militant groups are described as using in this article and its sources are those used in insurgencies.XavierGreen (talk) 19:18, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
 * This is not a Greek POV. You are utterly wrong to call this an "insurgency" which makes 0 sense. An insurgency implies that these leftists were all part of one unified rebellion, whereas the list is literally just a list of left-wing terror attacks. Regardless, even though "terrorist" can be wielded politically, it's still widely used and accepted. There's been plenty of right wing terror attacks in the US. Do we say that there's a right wing insurgency in the US? Obviously not. – FenixFeather (talk) (Contribs) 19:54, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
 * The groups carrying out attacks in Greece were and still are organized, Revolutionary Struggle and 17N for instance are not random lone wolves but rather organized militant groups. There is no need for a "unified rebellion" for there to be an insurgency, in the Insurgency in Northeast India there are literally dozens of different militant groups that launch attacks on the Indian government. Your own definition of insurgency is OR and does not comport with the Wikipedia article on the topic. Contrary to your assertion there are no organized right-wing militant groups engaged in armed conflict with the US government, there are however organized militant groups in Greece that engaged in armed conflict with the Greek government and while their attacks in recent times may not be as high profile as the attacks made by 17N, they still continue to exist and launch attacks.XavierGreen (talk) 20:11, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Argue about the definition of insurgency all you want. There's no coverage that describes all the activities listed in the article as an insurgency, and it's absurd and illogical to do so. WP:COMMONSENSE also applies here. – FenixFeather (talk) (Contribs) 20:21, 12 September 2018 (UTC)


 * Delete Per Constantine. Dubious "definition" of insurgency plus original research. The arguments for deletion presented in the closely related to this subject discussion AfD/Left-wing insurgency in Greece are good for this case too. ——Chalk19 (talk) 09:21, 14 September 2018 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.