Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Timeline of the death and state funeral of Elizabeth II




 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to Death and state funeral of Elizabeth II. The question at issue here is whether a separate article should exist; there is an overwhelming consensus that it should not, with the point of dispute being whether the title should be deleted entirely, or redirected. WP:ATD militates in favor of redirection, as does the prospect of useful information being retained in the edit history. It also seems unassailable that the title, Timeline of the death and state funeral of Elizabeth II, would properly redirect to an article section specifically presenting a timeline of the death and state funeral of Elizabeth II. Any editor interested in expanding the target article section can do so by visiting this edit history, without reviving the article as a whole. BD2412 T 06:45, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Timeline of the death and state funeral of Elizabeth II

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

Content fork (WP:CFORK) of Death and state funeral of Elizabeth II, which already has a "Timeline" section. See also WP:PROSELINE, which advises that articles in this style should be avoided.  Sandstein  12:01, 12 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: History and United Kingdom.   Sandstein   12:01, 12 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment — WP:PROSELINE is an essay, not a guideline. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 13:17, 12 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete - We don't need a moment by moment account of her death, the timeline in the main article is sufficient Zerbey (talk) 18:26, 12 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Royalty and nobility-related deletion discussions.  Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 18:48, 12 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete per Zerbey. I don't see the point of this. The main article is enough, it is not necessary to create content just because more information exists. 82.132.187.238 (talk) 22:52, 12 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete as it's a fork from Elizabeth II's state funeral page. GoodDay (talk) 00:12, 13 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep and Move all timeline content from Death and state funeral of Elizabeth II to this article. There are two questions that should be answered: (1) Is there reason to have a "timeline" article which is separate from the Death and state funeral of Elizabeth II article?  (2) What should be done to avoid duplication?   The answer to (1) is yes, the Death and state funeral of Elizabeth II, if not too long already, will be too long by the end of the month. The answer to (2) is to move all of the timeline content from the  Death and state funeral of Elizabeth II article to this article (Timeline of the death and state funeral of Elizabeth II) to avoid duplicating the content. Chrisclear (talk) 07:48, 13 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Update At the time of writing, Death and state funeral of Elizabeth II is now 235,059 bytes long. According to the article size editing guideline, articles over 100 kB "almost certainly should be divided". To this observer, the best way to reduce the size of Death and state funeral of Elizabeth II would be to move the entire timeline section to this article (Timeline of the death and state funeral of Elizabeth II). Chrisclear (talk) 15:09, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
 * But isn't essentially all of Death and state funeral of Elizabeth II a timeline? In the sense that the article is about lots of things that happen in sequence. If the timeline content is taken out, what's left?  Sandstein   11:29, 13 September 2022 (UTC)
 * I disagree. At the time of writing, Death and state funeral of Elizabeth II has 5 main sections: (1) Background (2) Timeline (3) State Funeral (4) Succession (5) Reactions. My view is that all of section 2 ("Timeline") should be moved to this article. Chrisclear (talk) 15:40, 13 September 2022 (UTC)


 * Delete per above --DragonFederal (talk) 12:24, 13 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete for now as an identical section in the main article already exists. If the article becomes too big, the timeline could become a standalone article again. Chaotic Enby (talk) 13:27, 13 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete per above. Most of this is already in the main article. The necessity of this article can be revisied if Death and state funeral of Elizabeth II's timeline section/overall size grow to a point where sections need to be spun off. But as it stands now, any additional content in this article could easily be incorporated into the main article with minimal growth in its size (using WP:SIZERULE guidelines). Leventio (talk) 00:07, 14 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment Completely agree. I would say we are still a way short of needing this spin off article (and I don't think it will be needed), but we will have a better idea after the funeral. AmbroseGreypaw (talk) 01:04, 15 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep I do not want this page to be deleted, because I like a timeline. Thank You! 2601:40A:8480:1750:0:0:0:68F7 (talk) 03:00, 14 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment. Even WP:PROSELINE allows for well constructed timelines! Unlike the prose-heavy "timeline" in the main article, this timeline presents the information in a format that you expect when you see the word "timeline". Nearly 12k views since creation a few days ago suggests that people are looking for this information, in addition to what is available on the other page. Cielquiparle (talk) 04:09, 14 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete per above Hey man im josh (talk) 19:07, 14 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Personally this page was helpful as a timeline was what I wanted. Missing is the exact time of death. Hopefully that can be supplied along with the name of the certifying doctor.74.137.230.137 (talk) 21:25, 14 September 2022 (UTC)
 * I think it's useful as well. I think it's too extensive for the Simple Wiki, but I also like there is a simplified timeline for people who want a quick-and-dirty summation of proceedings in 2 minutes rather than a more robust one that would take 15 minutes to parse. Electricmaster (talk) 01:13, 15 September 2022 (UTC)


 *  Delete as all the pages content is in the main death and funeral article. It is in greater detail on that article without making the page excessively long. The timeline on the other article has been well synthesized into prose. AmbroseGreypaw (talk) 00:59, 15 September 2022 (UTC)
 *  Delete All of this information can easily be incorporated into the main article and its not like that is getting so long it needed to this information to even be split out. Yeoutie (talk) 02:26, 15 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep — I think it's too extensive for the Simple Wiki, but I also like there is a simplified timeline for people who want a quick-and-dirty summation of proceedings in 2 minutes rather than a more robust one that would take 15 minutes to parse. Electricmaster (talk) 01:14, 15 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete - A simple, accurate, reliably sourced timeline might be valuable to some readers, but this one is poorly written, with mistakes and much unsourced material, and largely repeats verbatim paragraphs from the main article. Textorus (talk) 10:06, 15 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete this information is included in the main article, and it's better for articles to present information in prose rather than timeline format. If something isn't suitable for the main article then it shouldn't be in a timeline like this either - articles are supposed to summarise the important content rather than trying to include as much information as possible.  Hut 8.5  11:55, 15 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Redirect to Death and state funeral of Elizabeth II. This article is basically just repeating what that particular section is saying. Vida0007 (talk) 12:27, 15 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Swap the contents of this article and the contents of the Timeline section as per KyuuA4's suggestion below. Vida0007 (talk) 00:44, 19 September 2022 (UTC)


 * Keep and transfer the information in Death and state funeral of Elizabeth II to this article (if not already here), or else Delete, transfer the information in this article to that section (again, if not already there) and add a redirect from this page to that section. Mozartnut (talk) 17:19, 15 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Either delete or redirect to Death and state funeral of Elizabeth II, because at this point it's not offering any new information. Keivan.f  Talk 04:53, 16 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep. I think this article works well and has the appropriate level of details, whereas the Death and state funeral of Elizabeth II is a mess of minutiae. Keep this article and massively trim down Death and state funeral of Elizabeth II. Bondegezou (talk) 08:30, 16 September 2022 (UTC)
 * The details in that page are required and covered by reliable sources. What would be the point of having an article if we were only to cover everything on the surface and leave the details out? Keivan.f  Talk 16:32, 16 September 2022 (UTC)


 * Delete (or redirect to Death and state funeral of Elizabeth II). I do not think separate timeline articles are normally useful.  Peterkingiron (talk) 11:05, 16 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Redirect to Death and state funeral of Elizabeth II PhantomSteve/ talk ¦ contribs \ 14:49, 16 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Redirect to Death and state funeral of Elizabeth II, where it's covered in adequate detail. Don't need a separate article with any more in-depth coverage, as that would violate WP:NOTNEWS. Joseph2302 (talk) 15:02, 16 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Relist for one more week - this is an extreme situation where the article is highly trafficked due to current events. It should be kept up at least long enough so as its removal is not disruptive to people seeking abridged information about the Queen's death and funeral. schetm (talk) 05:23, 17 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Redirect to Death and state funeral of Elizabeth II EmilySarah99 (talk) 08:34, 17 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete. Against redirecting too. Not only do I think that documenting 1) Background, 3) State Funeral, 4) Succession, and 5) Reactions in Death and state funeral of Elizabeth II is not too dissimilar from a timeline in itself, but what I haven't seen mentioned yet is how a lot of this timeline is essentially just Operation London Bridge put into practice. The notability of a documented timeline like this is arguably because of Operation London Bridge also. A timeline is not really adding anything beyond what we already know in Operation London Bridge except any "live" practice that could be addressed in Death and state funeral of Elizabeth II anyway. JamesLewisBedford01 (talk) 10:24, 17 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete, unnecessary proliferation of articles about the same thing; in the long term it hardly seems worth redirecting either. W. P. Uzer (talk) 17:20, 17 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep and Move all timeline content from Death and state funeral of Elizabeth II to this article per User:Chrisclear. A succinct timeline is different from in-depth paragraphs and is useful in its own way: allowing future readers an easy at-a-glance look at all the week's activities. It's very much worth having, and more appropriate on its own page than adding to the length of what will certainly be a lengthy article. Doops | talk 21:07, 17 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Swap. The contents of the timeline in the main timeline section should be brought here, while the timeline listing in this article should be placed there. KyuuA4 (Talk:キュウ) 07:44, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
 * I concur with this suggestion, in case it would not be merged with the Timeline section of the main article. Vida0007 (talk) 00:42, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
 * This would only result in a massive headache for readers, going back and forth between the timeline and the main article. The main article currently covers the background (events preceding her death), the timeline between the day on which she died and the day preceding her funeral, then the lying-in-state, state funeral and related topics, committal service, internment, succession and reactions/commemorations. It has a good flow. Removing any section from it would disrupt its structure, and frankly there's no need to move anything out of it. Everything fits perfectly in one page. Keivan.f  Talk 03:01, 19 September 2022 (UTC)


 * Keep or Merge. I prefer having an article that lists a short timeline of events alongside the main article having fuller summaries. It could be merged with the main article, but it would probably make it too big. SapphireWilliams (talk page • contributions) 01:30, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Redirect to Death and state funeral of Elizabeth II or Merge having a separate article is unnecessary and indeed pointless, so it would be better off being merged into main Queen's death article. Villian Factman (talk) 13:37, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Redirect to funeral article We don’t need a spin-off article for a timeline until the main hits 60 kB, per WP:SIZERULE.69.118.232.58 (talk) 19:45, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment As noted above, Death and state funeral of Elizabeth II has a size of 244,524 bytes or 238.79 kB. According to the article size editing guideline, articles over 100 kB "almost certainly should be divided". One logical way in which the size of Death and state funeral of Elizabeth II could be reduced is to remove the entire timeline to the timeline article. Chrisclear (talk) 22:00, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
 * No, the main article has a size of 67kb readable prose. While this does fall under "probably should be divided", it already is divided with a few other subarticles and there's no need to subdivide indefinitely until it's below that threshold.


 * Delete this compilation of excessive detail. Doczilla  @SUPERHEROLOGIST 21:39, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete Death_and_state_funeral_of_Elizabeth_II is perfectly adequate, and such a duplicative hourly play-by-play is unnecessary. Reywas92Talk 04:44, 20 September 2022 (UTC)


 * ''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.