Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Timeline of video game console releases in North America


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. &mdash; Coffee //  have a cup  //  beans  // 11:04, 1 May 2016 (UTC)

Timeline of video game console releases in North America

 * NOTE: moved to Timeline of video game console releases. R.F. 2016-04-28Z13:11


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Redundant and does not cover the article title's topic. This list is mostly about the U.S. and Canada, probably not, you know, North America. Besides the main article History of video games (not just video game consoles), there are video game generation specific articles that mention release of video game consoles. Second generation of video game consoles for instance, that also list other regions. For region-specific information, there are also articles on Video gaming in the United States and Video gaming in Canada, which are more than just a table of chronological console releases. As the template shows, there isn't much written currently on countries besides these two. soetermans. ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 09:51, 6 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: I can't find the right way to show the "Video gaming in..." template, it can be seen here. soetermans . ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 09:54, 6 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Video games-related deletion discussions.  soetermans . ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 09:54, 6 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of History-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 19:08, 9 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 19:08, 9 April 2016 (UTC)


 * I'm not understanding how this nomination presents a deletion argument at all. If there were notable console releases in North America that aren't included in this timeline, add them. The rest of your comment actually undermines your claim that it's "redundant"; if you have to go to half a dozen different articles for the same information, none of which actually distill and compile it together in the manner this timeline presents, then it isn't very redundant. Unless you're simply against timelines generally...? postdlf (talk) 20:04, 9 April 2016 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * I think the topic as presented here is more notable than many other timelines, as reliable sources love compiling timelines of video game consoles as released in the united states. See and  for examples. Whether the scope is inappropriate, I would support the idea of renaming the list to Timeline of video game console releases in the United States. ~ Mable  ( chat ) 09:36, 12 April 2016 (UTC)
 * But that's the thing, because video gaming and the video game industry largely originated from the United States, there's a huge overlap with History of video games and the video game console generations listed . List of home video game consoles and List of handheld game consoles also mention the regions where the consoles were released. I did just remove the actual timeline, because the list is about the video game console releases, not about the video game console generations or when they were commercially available. soetermans . ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 12:42, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America1000 00:54, 13 April 2016 (UTC)
 * I see the fact that History of video games mostly presents information from an American point of view as its biggest flaw, honestly, rather than the natural result of a medium originated from the United States. Either way: Looking at List of home video game consoles, it indeed seems like that article does a better job of presenting the timeline of consoles in the United States than the article under discussion does. I think it may be proper to redirect Timeline of video game console releases in North America to that list.
 * Additionally, it may be valuable to add somekind of visual timeline to the article in this manner, but that's just a suggestion. ~ Mable ( chat ) 06:25, 13 April 2016 (UTC)
 * I did just remove the graphical timeline from Timeline of video game console releases in North America, as that shows when they were commercially available. That can also be easily explained by text, or possibly in a sidebar, instead of a huge graphical timeline. soetermans . ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 07:15, 13 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Visualizing information can have its own advantages and could help readers understand the content better. Regardless, I don't feel particularly strongly about it – it just seemed like an obvious thing to do here. ~ Mable ( chat ) 07:25, 13 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Keep - I just don't see any valid reasons for deletion. It's a valid subject, including items that all have their own articles, organized in a manner that makes sense, that can be source-able. It needs better formatting and sourcing, but its a valid list. Sergecross73   msg me  13:04, 13 April 2016 (UTC)
 * The subject is "timeline of video game console releases in North America", right? The graphic timeline I took out was about the retail availability of consoles, not the actual releases. So a more appropriate title would be List of video game console releases in North America. But is North America actually covered? For instance, for the Xbox One it says November 22, 2013. But the source used at Xbox One says the release date of November 22, 2013 is, amongst other countries, Canada, Mexico and the United States. That's a total of three out of the 23 North American countries. The SNES was discontinued in the U.S. in 1999, but what about the other 22 countries? We could title it again as List of video game console releases in the United States, but with articles like Video gaming in the United States, List of home video game consoles and List of handheld game consoles that's already covered. Those are already properly sourced, list every region, also with technical details and units sold. soetermans . ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 08:44, 14 April 2016 (UTC)
 * The hsitory/timeline of console releases in Mexico (for example) may not even warrant the same kind of notability as the United States does. The same goes for the smaller countries. ~ Mable ( chat ) 09:27, 14 April 2016 (UTC)
 * I agree, but in that case "North America" isn't the right geographical subject. soetermans . ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 09:46, 14 April 2016 (UTC)
 * I understand your concern in theory, but isn't this an issue affecting pretty much how WP:VG handles video game releases in general? I mean, every time we get confirmation of a Japanese game getting a "North American release", its mostly talking about US/Canada, and isn't necessarily confirming a release in every individual region in Central America, right? I mean, when Persona Qs article says that it received a North American release, its not necessarily confirming it received a specific Guatamala release, right? I guess I'm unsure how this issue is specific to this particular article? Or maybe I'm wrong, I can't say I've ever given it much thought... Sergecross73   msg me  15:33, 14 April 2016 (UTC)
 * I personally don't care much about the "geographical subject" argument – to me, that is simply an argument to rename the list. Soetermans convinced me that this timeline article was redundant by asking what value it adds to List of home video game consoles. Sergecross, why do you think we should keep both articles? ~ Mable ( chat ) 17:28, 14 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Keep - agree with above arguments, no valid reason for deletion. DaltonCastle (talk) 00:45, 15 April 2016 (UTC)
 * C'mon, I've provided several arguments. If you do not agree, you have to say more than that. soetermans . ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 05:51, 15 April 2016 (UTC)
 * , would you mind explaining why we should keep it? soetermans . ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 07:14, 26 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Have you considered a merge proposal? I think that might be a good way to solve it. DaltonCastle (talk) 07:17, 26 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your quick reply, . Thing is, List of home video game consoles and List of handheld game consoles show the initial release date, while the generations listed at show the release dates with more additional info. I'm not sure where it could be merged.  soetermans . ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 07:23, 26 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Just my two cents here: I'd put the one list below the other on the same page. It is helpful as a complete view of how they were developed; not just with respect to generation. You could have the section titled "Complete list of releases" at the bottom of the article. DaltonCastle (talk) 07:28, 26 April 2016 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Weak Keep (changed to weak delete -- see below) - Clearly this should be renamed Timeline of video game consoles in the United States, but it doesn't seem like it's necessarily redundant or needs to be merged (and certainly doesn't seem like it needs to be deleted). So we have History of video games which is all prose and broader than the US. Video gaming in the United States is likewise prose-based, though does have a major section with a chronological structure. The question there is whether it would make sense to merge a table-based or graphical timeline of video game consoles in the United States into that article? I'd weakly say it does not. That article could be seriously expanded, and if a big table or graphic were added in, it would be potentially redundant and, if it's anything like the page under discussion here, take up an undue amount of space on the page for what it offers. This timeline could thus be understood as basically a WP:SPINOUT from that article (again, once renamed to focus on the U.S.). I don't think the generational and other sub-type lists and timelines are sufficiently comparable to matter to this discussion. I will say that I think an ideal direction would be to just turn this article into a Timeline of video game consoles and include much more international detail. That's a big ask, though. &mdash;  Rhododendrites  talk  \\ 13:35, 16 April 2016 (UTC)
 * What do you think is the difference between the scope of your theoretical Timeline of video game consoles and the already existing List of home video game consoles? Both list worldwide console releases by year and generation. ~ Mable ( chat ) 21:03, 16 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Oh dear, good point. Apparently I followed every link but the most important one. Yeah, so all this one adds is NA (US) release date. The other list could easily be modified to include such information without the need to duplicate all the rest of the content. I've struck my !vote above. Weak Delete as effectively duplicate content. &mdash;  Rhododendrites talk  \\ 21:23, 16 April 2016 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Sandstein   07:32, 21 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete. Identical in scope to List of home video game consoles. Redirect if necessary, but I see no reason to keep the unsourced content or use the title as a redirect. czar  15:28, 23 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Keep-I actually find this pretty useful to be honest. Wgolf (talk) 03:06, 24 April 2016 (UTC)
 * I know I'm asking this to everyone who !votes "keep", but that's because I still don't feel like I got a good answer out of it. What do you think the added value is of this list when we already have the List of home video game consoles, which is also presented in a timeline-like format? ~ Mable ( chat ) 08:31, 24 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Saying WP:ITSUSEFUL without explaining why it's useful doesn't help the deletion discussion. Like Mable pointed out, there's a huge overlap with List of home video game consoles. soetermans . ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 07:14, 26 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete per Czar above. We don't need a separate page covering the same thing. AdrianGamer (talk) 16:02, 27 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete as still questionable for a solid separate article. SwisterTwister   talk  22:56, 27 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Keep or merge per everyone above, having a chronology is good, but the location seems fairly irrelevant.  Note: no prejudice to re-creation if sufficient information is found, we do not want a release date for all 206 states of the world on one table. All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 13:08, 28 April 2016 (UTC).


 * Hi, even with the new title Timeline of video game console releases, there still a huge overlap with List of home video game consoles and List of handheld game consoles, both of which are chronologically ordered already. soetermans . ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 10:46, 29 April 2016 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.