Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tino Georgiou


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result was delete due to lack of third-party, independent, reliable sources and salt due to persistent disruption of Wikipedia processes as noted below by Victoriagirl. — TKD::Talk 01:39, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Tino Georgiou

 * – (View AfD) (View log)

Failed WP:BIO. A largely unreferenced article about a romance novelist with one self-published book to his credit. The product of a number of single purpose accounts - nearly all of which are anonymous. Victoriagirl 15:57, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete. Can't find any references to other works that could qualify him as notable. Maybe in the future, but not now, with only a self-published book.--Luis Augusto Peña (talk) 16:18, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment. After removing the AfD message, the original editor has recreated the article under discussion as Tino B. Georgiou. I have restored the message (and relevant tags) and have nominated the second Tino Georgiou article for deletion.Victoriagirl 15:19, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete and probably SALT. As per Tino B. Georgiou) -- self-publication does not confer notability. Accounting4Taste 21:03, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Don't Delete Every Author has to start somewhere, right? And the promising career of this young author is just taking off. Notable? You Bet. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.171.57.189 (talk • contribs) — 4.171.57.189 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Comment Wikipedia is not a crystal ball. Victoriagirl 23:16, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree, There are lots of web sites where the author can start, e.g. myspace. --Luis Augusto Peña (talk) 02:29, 14 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Comment I don't think they meant starting on Wikipedia. I think they meant, every author starts with their career by writing a first word.ProudGk 11:47, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment Neither are you. But you like to act like one. Let's compare Tino to say...Karen Connelly. Tino has contributed a lot more to the common good of humanity. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.171.57.189 (talk) 01:40, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Don't Delete I am the original poster of this thread. Tino Georgiou is dedicating a great deal of time to supporting local and national charities and continues to strive for the highest levels in the novels he writes. Striking a balance between professional and social activities, Tino Georgiou is an important member for the Greek community and the city of Chicago. Brandondev 23:41, 13 September 2007 (UTC) — Brandondev (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * If what you said is true, the article should comply with Notability : "A topic is presumed to be notable if it has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject.", and there is no reliables sources cited in the article that could verify your statement. Then, we fall back to WP:BIO guidelines where you can see that self publishing a couple of books are not enough to claim notability.--Luis Augusto Peña (talk) 02:23, 14 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Authors-related deletions.   -- John Vandenberg 05:08, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Illinois-related deletions.   -- John Vandenberg 05:11, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete Self-published book, use of socks is not a good sign either. --Chuck Sirloin 01:49, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment Not all iUniverse authors are "self" published. They do sign some authors to exclusive contracts. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.171.45.90 (talk) 06:57, 14 September 2007 (UTC)  — 4.171.45.90 (talk)
 * Comment Could you please provide a link to the part of the iUniverse website that outlines that? I've searched the website quite thoroughly and can't find it.  All four of their major publishing packages (as in, how much you pay and what you get) announce clearly that they are non-exclusive. Accounting4Taste 20:15, 15 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Don't Delete Three full-length novels that sell well. The guy obviously has a few fans. Seems to be big in Chicago. I have to imagine there are less notable people on Wikipedia. There is no spam going on. Just a nice bio about an author. Leave it be.ProudGk 11:47, 15 September 2007 (UTC) — ProudGk (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Delete. A self-published novel that doesn't seem to have achieved any particular notability; all these sockpuppets indicate a probable conflict of interest as well. -FisherQueen (Talk) 11:55, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment First, You don't know if his work is self-published. Second, Published authors are notable if they have received multiple independent reviews of or awards for their work, or if their work is likely to be very widely read. This is true for this author. ProudGk 13:31, 15 September 2007 (UTC) — ProudGk (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Reply. You're right.  I  know that his work is published by a company that publishes self-published works, but I don't know if his work has received multiple independent reviews, or awards, or if his work is very widely read.  I haven't seen any reliable sources that would confirm that any of those things are true, and when I googled, I didn't find any such sources.  That's what this discussion is about.  If that is true as you say, then all you need to do is draw those sources to our attention.  -FisherQueen (Talk) 13:55, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I'll begin by pointing out that iUniverse is first and foremost a self-publisher. In fact, they have titled their entry page "iUniverse - Self Publishing Company". If the company did not charge in publishing Tino Georgiou's The Fates... well, that in itself is newsworthy. Before I address this point, I must note that there is no evidence that Georgiou's other novels (Kingdoms and Summer Blossom) have ever been published. This, despite the fact that they are included in the Bibliography. All this discussion about self-publishing would appear irrelevant if Georgiou met the notability guidelines, which states that the person should have "been the subject of published secondary sources that are reliable, intellectually independent, and independent of the subject. If the depth of coverage is not substantial, then multiple independent sources may need to be cited to establish notability." The article, as it stands, fails to acheive this goal. I write this acknowleding that the following claim is included: "In both 1999 and 2000, USAToday [sic] listed him as "romance readers will begin to associate his name with multigenerational sagas. Tino is a master of the romance novel form, because he has a keen ear for dialogue, constructs deft scenes, maintains a page-turning pace, and provides compelling characterization." I find it curious that USA Today would print exactly the same words in two separate articles published a year apart. May we please be provided with dates, article titles, and page references? Victoriagirl 17:10, 15 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Comment Your whole argument seems to center around an issue that you don't even know to be true--self published. iUniverese DOES have contracted authors. You also seem to be missing the fact that Tino's books sell well--and he has a multitude of independently written reviews spanning across 35 countries.ProudGk 12:00, 16 September 2007 (UTC) — ProudGk (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Comment Could you please provide a link to the part of the iUniverse site that outlines how they have contracted authors? I looked over their site and couldn't find anything that suggested that they do that.  Their four major packages for sale indicate that they make a point of issuing non-exclusive contracts. Accounting4Taste 14:51, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment ProudGk, with all due respect, my nomination is centered on the simple fact that, as it stands, the Tino Georgiou article fails notability guidelines. In fact, only two of the eleven sentences in my post address the issue of self-publishing. Furthermore, you'll note that I state that the issue would be irrelevant if Georgiou only met the criteria included in the guidelines. You appear to know your subject: you write that he has three published books, that they sell well, and that Georgiou's work has been the subject of a great number of independantly written reviews in 35 countries. Providing verifiable references would contribute greatly - not only to the article, but in this discussion. Victoriagirl 15:55, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Clarification No, I think you missed my argument, so I'll clarify. My argument is that there are no reliable sources that verify anything you are saying, including that this book is one of iUniverse's contracted books, that Tino's books sell well, or that there are a multitude of independently written reviews. I haven't been able to verify any of these assertions from reliable sources. You seem to know a lot about this author, and you are the one most likely to know of these sources, so it would be really helpful if you would produce them. -FisherQueen (Talk) 12:03, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Clarification To see how the book sells, just go around the various sites and look. Reviews are all over the place. Is Tino a contracted author at iUniverse? Don't know. My point was simply you and the other posters in this discussion just presumed he was self-published. And as for not finding anything--I did a search on google and none of his books show up, but when you go to various sites, there they are. Problems with google? For the sources used in the info posted, just read his books, there are the sources. As for this thread, I'm done with it, so do NOT post to me anymore, as your queries will go unanswered. P.S. If you want to know whether iUniverse offers contracts to authors, call them and ask. Go straight to the horses mouth. One last thing: Is Tino notable? His books rank in the top 10,000 globally and he receives favorable reviews. So, let Wikipedia decide. Wait, one last comment. That box at the top that states "this is not a ballot" has got to be the dumbest damn thing I've seen. Do you really think people are so stupid that they can't figure out this is a discussion, and not a ballot? 'Nuff said.ProudGk 16:49, 16 September 2007 (UTC) — ProudGk (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * We can't just take your word for it that he is in the top 10,000 globally and has been favorably reviewed in significant publications. You say that you've found verification at "various sites."  Why won't you link to those sites so we can see them?  Is it a secret? -FisherQueen (Talk) 17:21, 16 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Strong delete. Verifiability guideline failed miserably; there are no independent references in the article—no reviews, nothing but the link to his publishing house. —C.Fred (talk) 16:56, 16 September 2007 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.