Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Toby Ragaini


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Daniel (talk) 03:12, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Toby Ragaini

 * – ( View AfD View log )

Sources were added following PROD, but they are not of the depth required to meet WP:BIO. This one is probably the best, but it just speaks to his founding role with the company, not notability. Of the rest, we have mention of his name in a credit (same here), a comment from him (which is where the notability claim stems from, but it's his own opinion], and a blog post that he wrote. He does not appear to be a notable game designer, and I can't think of any other standard he'd reach Star   Mississippi  23:37, 25 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions.  Star   Mississippi  23:37, 25 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Video games-related deletion discussions.  Star   Mississippi  23:37, 25 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Internet-related deletion discussions.  Star   Mississippi  23:37, 25 June 2021 (UTC)


 * Copying IP 96's keep vote, which you can see here. Don't want it to get missed if folks don't check talk Star   Mississippi  01:46, 26 June 2021 (UTC) : Both Asheron's Call and The Matrix Online are considered notable games. Asheron's Call won an AIAS award (https://www.interactive.org/awards/award_category_details.asp?idAward=2000&idGameAwardType=15). Surely the lead designer of these game titles is notable enough for the page to exist
 * keep is also my vote. Asheron's Call and The Matrix Online were both really important games when they came out, so it seems reasonable that the designer of both of these games is also notable. Benplowman (talk) 20:49, 26 June 2021 (UTC)

Thanks, Star Mississippi. Also here are two additional interviews which better establish notability:

96.230.227.225 (talk) 01:52, 26 June 2021 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Engadget
 * Destructoid

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Extraordinary Writ (talk) 03:24, 3 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete Sorry but this isn't even close to meeting WP:GNG. The sources provided here and in the article are about the games Ragaini worked on, not Ragaini himself. With video game biographies, we typically want interviews and articles focused on the person not the games. His name is not even mentioned in the article titles, it's just "Asheron's Call creator" or whatever. MobyGames is unreliable. The other sources in the article only contain brief name mentions and not the quality coverage we need for GNG. TarkusAB talk / contrib 09:14, 3 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete per Tarkus here-- I searched for other notable mentions as well and found nothing that addresses the comment Tarkus made here.  Nomader  ( talk ) 18:45, 6 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete - I'm not seeing the coverage to show that the subject itself is independently notable. (Note that interviews are primarily first party accounts, not the third party coverage we look for to meet the GNG.) The above keep !votes violate WP:NOTINHERITED. Sergecross73   msg me  15:59, 8 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment My apologies, but I don't edit wikipedia, so I am not familiar with how article deletion comments usually work. I'd like to add my perspective as a fan of Asheron's Call (AC). AC was one of the original big 3 MMOs, and while not a huge commercial success, it was not a failure either, staying in operation from 1999 to 2017. When comparing AC's coverage to one of its rivals, EverQuest, there are articles for some of that game's developers such as Brad McQuaid and John Smedley. There are other examples of articles about game developers, but EverQuest seems to be the best direct comparison. Both articles about the two Everquest developers focus on their work on video games, with little to no information about the person themselves. The article about Toby Ragaini is a stub, but if it were fleshed out I would imagine it would be similar to the other two developer articles I mentioned. My comment is, if those other two game developers meet Wikipedia's standards for notability, then Toby probably does too. And if Toby does not, I'd think the same would be true for many other game developer articles. I do not know enough about the notability policy to know how it should be applied here, but I would hope it is applied fairly. --AnAdventurerAC (talk) 17:10, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
 * No, probably the opposite - the sourcing on those articles aren't very good either. I havent looked around to see if there's more sourcing out there, but if that's all there is, I would think McQuaid and Smedley would be in danger of deletion as well. Sergecross73   msg me  17:46, 13 July 2021 (UTC)


 * Delete. Nom's rationale is quite clear, and I could find no significant coverage to counter it. PK650 (talk) 23:07, 13 July 2021 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.