Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tom Warder


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. Tim Song (talk) 05:45, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

Tom Warder

 * – ( View AfD View log  •  )

Non-notable person. Warder is possible notable as the catalyst of his wife's (Marie Warder) campaign to educate the world about haemochromatosis, however he does not appear to be notable in and of himself. His "musical career" seems to have been limited to a stint in a South African military band, and his "inventions" are really no more than minor engineering tweaks to existing technologies. WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 12:48, 25 May 2010 (UTC) Keep there are plenty of sources supporting the notability of the topic, including multiple newspaper articles. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 20:24, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of South Africa-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 15:56, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Medicine-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 15:57, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 15:57, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Canada-related deletion discussions.  —Argolin (talk) 11:44, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment The article does not cite "multiple newspaper articles". It cites
 * a local newspaper claiming that Warder "invented" the incubator, when, in fact, he merely designed a larger version of an existing machine
 * An article in newsweek that mentions "two South African inventors and an American associate", but not Warder by name
 * An article in the Johannesburg Sunday Press regarding his invention of the pop top machine (which may or may not mention him by name).
 * The other citations in the article are about various aspects of hemochromatosis, but not about Warder himself. WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 20:36, 25 May 2010 (UTC)


 * keep - subject of published secondary source material. /Pieter Kuiper (talk) 09:34, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment The secondary source material does not constitute significant coverage (a brief mention of the bottle-cap deal which may or may not have actually mentioned his name, since the author has changed the quoted text since the topic was raised, and a brief mention in a local paper about his incubator "invention" which was no invention but rather a redesign of an existing device). Coverage in the book The Bronze Killer cannot really be called an independent secondary source as this was a book written by Warder's wife.  WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 12:07, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

 Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Jujutacular  T · C 04:32, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.


 * Delete no significant sources for significant personal accomplishments.   DGG ( talk ) 05:29, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete Marked embellishment of sources to the point of original research. The very description "catalyst" indicates that others acted. Delete as not notable -- insufficient reliable secondary sourcing.Novangelis (talk) 19:11, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

As we don't want to bombard you, I am writing on behalf of a group of us who set out to test opinion concerning the deletion of this article, emailing, Facebook etc., and the response has been phenominal - a unanimous DONT! Some of the comments really make sense. He really ISBold text "The world's most common HHC patient, and it is a fact that not a single day goes by without someone, somewhere reading "The Bronze Killer" which, in turn, motivates the readers to check the Net to find out more about him. -- What better place to go for research, than Wikipedia. We don't think that the editors are aware of how many millions of people are now known to suffer from Hemochromatosis, and Tom Warder is also on YouTube. I have also been in touch with the publishers of the B/K and they report that people are downloading the eBOOK version of the book like crazy!

Our suggestion is that, if the main concern is that the article reads like an obituary, you could delete the EPILOGUE - BUT NOT THE ENTIRE ARTICLE! Marie Warder is in touch with a former SAA colleague of Tom Warder, who now also lives in Canada, and he assured us that the Incubator was not just a larger version of the one that had been used for infants. It had some very specific features and, furthermore, the way it was fitted into the floor of the aircraft was also truly innovative.

I also see a comment about his band that is somewhat uncalled for. Reliable sources inform us that, the band he led after the war was amazingly popular. Played for the "Coronation Ball" etc. in Johannesburg, many other notable functions in the rest of the country, and was the "band of choice" for functions (Johannesburg Consolidated Investments and other large goldmining companies).

Please don't delete the article!

Murella (talk) 16:52, 3 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Comment The main concern is not that the article reads like an obituary -- that can be fixed by rewriting the article -- but that Tom Warder is not inherently notable outside of his relationship to Marie Warder and her crusade to raise awareness of hemochromatosis. If readers wish to know about hemochromatosis, they can read that article; they don't need to read about Tom Warder to learn about the disease.  The vast content of the article relates to his "accomplishments" outside of his role in the HHC campaign as a musician and inventor; accomplishments that do not make Warder especially notable.  The mention of his condition and its catalyzing role in Marie Warder's campaign can be made at her article; outside of that, there is nothing much more to be said about him.  If there are "reliable sources" to indicate that his band was notable, then an article about that band can be written citing those sources.  WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 17:22, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.