Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tommie Moore


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. (non-admin closure) Pamzeis  ( talk ) 01:56, 21 October 2020 (UTC)

Tommie Moore

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There don't seem to be sources which actually discuss Tommie or Tomiwitta Moore, only passing mentions as part of a cast (or a one-line announcement of her engagement). Fails WP:BIO and WP:NACTOR (her role in Beggar's Holiday was not a 'significant role'). Fram (talk) 06:45, 2 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions. Fram (talk) 06:45, 2 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. Fram (talk) 06:45, 2 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Comment There are three sources in Google Books (searching for her as Tomiwitta Moore) that interest me:
 * Black Entertainers in African American Newspaper Articles: An annotated bibliography of the Chicago defender, the Afro-American (Baltimore), the Los Angeles sentinel, and the New York Amsterdam news, 1910-1950 By Charlene B. Regester
 * A Guide to Magazine Articles, Newspaper Articles, and Books Concerning More Than 15,000 Black Individuals and Groups · Volumes 1-2 By Mary Mace Spradling · 1980
 * Brown Sugar: Over One Hundred Years of America's Black Female Superstars By Donald Bogle · 2007
 * I'll see where I might find them. --DiamondRemley39 (talk) 10:56, 2 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. AleatoryPonderings (talk) 13:08, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Weak keep for now. I've added some content to the article and hope to find more. At least one of those books is at a local library, but I don't know if their reference area is open at this time due to COVID. This will take me a few days to sort out. To the closer: Please, if it looks like a delete, extend it a week so I can have a chance of improving it. Thank you.
 * Keep meets the notability criteria for actors having had significant roles in several notable productions. Excellent work by DiamondRemley39 greatly improving on the content and sourcing of the entry. FloridaArmy (talk) 12:35, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Care to elaborate which are these "significant roles in several notable productions"? Her role in the Green-Eyed Blonde, a rather obscure film, seems to be her most significant role, and even there she is a supporting actor more than a lead. None of her other roles seem to fit the NACTOR requirement? Fram (talk) 12:45, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I can't speak for FloridaArmy, but I can address some of this. Playing Claudia in Claudia is significant. NACTOR doesn't call for lead actor. A review of that film states that no one really is the "lead" in that film and her performance is commented on. A film's obscurity is not only irrelevant in a discussion (see WP:OBTOP), it's also subjective. Will keep looking for more coverage that should make her notability clearer. --DiamondRemley39 (talk) 13:27, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
 * No, playing Claudia in a touring production of Claudia (play) isn't significant if that tour isn't significant. Being the Claudia of the 1941 premiere, yes, or the Claudia of Claudia (1943 film) as well probably. But plays get staged again and again with different actors and in different locations all the time, and being the lead in one of these productions is not an indication of notability. This "Claudia" performance is so notable that it gets a small announcement at the bottom of page 57,and Tommie Moore gets this: "Leads are Tommie Moore, who has acted in films on the Coast, and Harrel Tillman, film actor and band vocalist." A role which gets you half of one sentence is not the kind of role which makes you meet WP:NACTOR. Even her role in Green-Eyed Blonde gets "Other standouts are Tommie Moore, Beverly Long and Linda Plowman". Again, this is all the attention she gets in that article in Variety. That's a very passing mention, not the stuff NACTOR is about. Fram (talk) 14:04, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Direct me to a guideline that says the tour has to be of a certain level of significance for it to count for an actor's notability. What would that even mean? Most professional tours are of significance in the history of the production of the play. What matters is the coverage. Significance is subjective, but many would say that a tour of Claudia with an all-black cast in 1946 that received coverage is "significant". How thoroughly did you review the sources? Did you read the article titled, "Tommie Moore, Actress and Model, Leaves on Tour of "Claudia" for Negro Drama Gp."? That's not a passing mention. Regarding her work in Green-Eyed Blonde, the text of the review calling her out as a good (or bad) performer should not be mischaracterized as a passing mention. It would amount to a namecheck on a cast list. This was more than that and it demonstrates that she had a decently sized role in the film. Again, more coming when I can get my hands on some books. DiamondRemley39 (talk) 14:22, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
 * WP:NACTOR says "Has had significant roles in multiple notable films, television shows, stage performances, or other productions." (emphasis mine). The 1946 tour / reprise of Claudia is not a notable stage performance. It gets some routine announcements at the time, and that's it. So her role as Claudia is a significant role in a non-notable production of a notable play. Fram (talk) 14:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
 * We will have to agree to disagree on the significance of a black cast tour of Claudia in the 1940s. DiamondRemley39 (talk) 15:03, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Found citation for coverage: "Movie features Blossoming star: Tommie Moore Gets 'Gratifying Role in Film Story of Modern Correction School'." Ebony 13 (November 1957): 93-96. DiamondRemley39 (talk) 15:19, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Whether we end up agreeing or disagreeing, you are doing an admirable job of looking for and finding sources. Fram (talk) 15:37, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Spartaz Humbug! 17:47, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep per WP:HEY. It seems clear that Moore received coverage, especially as a Black actress playing roles originally performed by white actresses. There's a point where the hair-splitting over sources does not benefit the encyclopedia anymore, and it's time to drop the stick. — Toughpigs (talk) 02:25, 13 October 2020 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.