Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tong Yang Bank


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Ultimately, there's no consensus within the discussion at this time. Please note that I reviewed and accepted the AfC entry for Tongyang Group. I'll leave it to others to decide if Tong Yang Bank should be expanded per the sources within this discussion or merged/redirected to Tongyang Group. (Non-administrator closure.) Northamerica1000(talk) 06:45, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

Tong Yang Bank

 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

No indication of any notability per WP:COMPANY. Raykyogrou0 ( Talk ) 11:28, 14 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Speedy close. WP:COMPANY states that "Editors coming across an article on such a company without such references are encouraged to search (or request that others search) prior to nominating for deletion, given the very high likelihood that a publicly traded company is actually notable according to the primary criterion." It appears this was not met, if that has been done, they a 2nd nomination may be pursued. – H T  D  12:06, 14 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Comment Tong Yang Bank is not publicly traded itself. It is a fully-owned subsidiary of Tongyang Securities (ref), and not a very large one at that. Tongyang Securities itself is listed . The best approach would be to start an article on Tongyang Group first, write about all the group members in context (including Tongyang Securities), and later assess whether there's a need to spin off an article on Tongyang Securities, per Summary style. 61.10.165.33 (talk) 15:08, 14 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Merge I don't see WP:RS among the English Google hits, and the depth of coverage in Korean is not particularly impressive either (see e.g. Naver News archive search, mostly trivial mentions in the context of other Tong Yang companies). Best solution is probably to create an article on the Tongyang Group (quick, before they collapse! ) and merge this into there. 61.10.165.33 (talk) 14:49, 14 January 2014 (UTC)
 * I have submitted an AFC draft about the Tongyang Group. See Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Tongyang Group. Regards, 61.10.165.33 (talk) 09:11, 15 January 2014 (UTC)
 * The draft for Tongyang Group looks very good. Meanwhile, this discussion should be put on hold until the AfC is accepted so this page can be redirected there.  Raykyogrou0  ( Talk ) 12:27, 15 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Close/Keep AFD isn't used as a clean up, Also per HTD. - →Davey 2010→ →Talk to me!→  18:56, 14 January 2014 (UTC)
 * HTD's rationale says "given the very high likelihood that a publicly traded company is actually notable". Tong Yang Bank is not a publicly traded company, and in a search I do not see enough independent, reliable sources either in English or Korean to write an article about them. 61.10.165.33 (talk) 09:11, 15 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I'm getting the general idea that htd and davey just went around copy-pasting their comments on all afd's I opened without individually even looking at the articles. Raykyogrou0  ( Talk ) 12:27, 15 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep. Though I don't speak Korean, it appears that the bank is notable using a very rough Google Translate-generated translation of the articles: this, this and this should prove my point. --Sky Harbor (talk) 02:22, 16 January 2014 (UTC)
 * There's also this. --Sky Harbor (talk) 05:48, 16 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Perhaps it would fit better on the Korean wikipedia then. Where are the original links because, the text appears to be broken. (or lost in translation)  Raykyogrou0  ( Talk ) 14:15, 16 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Per WP:GNG, sources "do not have to be in English" to contribute to notability on English Wikipedia. However, they do have to be independent and in-depth. Of the links posted, #2 and #3 are advertorials/press releases for branch openings (relevant WP:N quote: "announcements columns, and minor news stories are all examples of coverage that may not actually support notability when examined, despite their existence as reliable sources"). The tone doesn't really come across when you Google Translate it (you'll probably be too distracted by howlers like "new address for Allah prevention"), so here's a manual translation of one paragraph:


 * 동양은행은 그 동안 필리핀은행들에 비하여 여러 가지 편리한 은행서비스를 제공하여 필리핀의 한국교민사회 및 유학생들에게 많은 도움을 주어왔다. 또한 지점장과 창구 직원이 한국인이어서 아주 편리하고 신속하다. 통장개설절차를 간소화하여 한국인이 손쉽게 보통예금(Savings Account) 또는 당좌예금(Current Account)을 당일로 오픈할 수 있게 되었다. 현금인출카드(ATM)와 수표책(Check Book)을 사용함으로써 현금보유에 따르는 위험을 덜고 학교등록금, 집세 등을 수표로 지급할 수 있게 되었다. 또한 동양은행의 ATM카드는 체크카드(직불카드)의 기능을 함께 가지고 있어 마트에서 물건을 사거나 집에서 인터넷으로 각종공과금을 납부할 수 있어 편리하다.


 * During that period, Tong Yang Bank, compared to other Philippine banks, has provided all kinds of convenient banking services, and given lots of help to the Korean expatriate community in the Philippines and international students. Additionally, branch managers and counter staff are Koreans, so it's very fast and convenient. Account opening procedures have been simplified, and Koreans can easily open a savings account and current account on the same day. By using a cash withdrawal card (ATM) and checkbook, [you] can avoid the danger of carrying around cash, and can pay for school enrolment fees, rent, etc. with checks. Tong Yang Bank's ATM card comes with check card (debit card) functionality too, so you can enjoy convenience whether you're shopping at the supermarket or paying bills at home on the internet."


 * The first link features a paragraph or two of independently-written content in its lede, but the rest is an interview (i.e. a primary source) consisting of hard-hitting questions like "What are the advantages of using your ATM service?" The fourth link I cannot access due to a malware warning. And all of these are from local Korean expat community papers in Manila, not wide-circulation Philippine or South Korean newspapers with well-established journalistic reputations. 61.10.165.33 (talk) 17:16, 16 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Non-english sources would normally be fine all the links contain gibberish like "»óÇß´ø ÀÎ¿øº¸´Ù ´õ ¸¹Àº ÀÎ»çµéÀÌ Âü¼®ÇÏ¿© ¼ºÈ²À» ÀÌ·é °¡¿îµ¥ ÁøÇàµÈ µ¿¾ç¿À¸®¿Â ÀºÇà Ã¢¸³ 8ÁÖ³â ±â³ä½ÄÀº Ç" instead of korean. Raykyogrou0  ( Talk ) 06:31, 17 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Ah, yeah, that. All the links are in EUC-KR encoding, but don't bother specifying "charset" headers anywhere. (If the malware warnings didn't already tip you off: their server admins apparently have no clue what they are doing.) In your web browser, try choosing EUC-KR (sometimes just labelled "Korean") encoding manually instead. E.g. in Chrome under Tools-> Encoding, first uncheck "Auto Detect", then go back to the same menu and pick "Korean". 61.10.165.33 (talk) 08:09, 17 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Oh, I see now. Just wow. I thought it was a machine-translated version that got messed up.  Raykyogrou0  ( Talk ) 01:13, 18 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Comment. The comments saying "speedy keep" or "close" are not actual speedy keep criterion.  Raykyogrou0  ( Talk ) 14:15, 16 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Korea-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 02:32, 17 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Philippines-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 02:32, 17 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Business-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 02:33, 17 January 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.