Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tony Luke, Jr.


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   no consensus. Ron Ritzman (talk) 01:04, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

Tony Luke, Jr.

 * – ( View AfD View log  •  )

No evidence of notability. Several very minor film roles. One significant role in a self-produced, non-notable film. No significant coverage in independent reliable sources. SummerPhD (talk) 19:26, 17 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete vanity article from a non-notable person. Andrew Lenahan -  St ar bli nd  21:39, 17 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 17:02, 18 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Food and drink-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 17:02, 18 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Businesspeople-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 17:03, 18 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep. Plenty of references in the news link above indicate notability. Most are local (Philadelphia papers) but also New York and LA. Pburka (talk) 00:20, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep. I am from the Philadelphia area and I see him mentioned on the news pretty often, such as in the linked articles.  72.58.66.148 (talk) 19:04, 20 September 2010 (UTC) — 72.58.66.148 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Comment - Presumably, you mean the two articles linked above (there are no independent sources in the article itself). The "NY" source (newsday.com is behind a paywall, so I can't be sure what's there at the moment. However, if the title is representative, the article isn't about Tony Luke, Jr. but the restaurant, Tony Luke's. Yes, he's interviewed for it, but it's not like we're short on Joey Vento quotes (Geno's is notable, Vento is not). The "LA" source is scant material on Luke: Philadelphia native, in two movies, owns the resaurant. There is a good bit of bluster ("Luke, Jr. is beyond incredible", "made a hardened critic fall in love with it, as only Luke could do", "Tony Luke, Jr., restaurateur, actor and impresario, who is as much a part of his city’s landscape as Constitution Hall and the Phillie Phanatic", "legendary eateries", etc.), which brings us to the source: "Canyon News". It seems the publicity machine is dialed in on this one, "It is simply not possible for editors to examine each article to see if it is true or false. All contributors have promised to follow a strict higher level of care to assure that their articles are truthful, supported by facts and evidence, and that their work is solely their creation." We're back to the lack of substantial coverage in independent reliable sources. - SummerPhD (talk) 19:56, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment Perhaps a rename to Tony Luke's (i.e. the restaurant, not the person) and added content would be better than a delete? I am also from Philadelphia and I wouldn't really say Tony Luke's is particularly less notable than Pat's or Geno's, particularly since Tony Luke Jr. has been on TV a fair bit as of late.  68.45.109.14 (talk) 22:10, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment I'm from the Philadelphia area too and I don't recall him ever being mentioned in the news. Mtiffany71 (talk) 20:04, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

 Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, -- Cirt (talk) 00:02, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Speedy Keep and Rename This article is suppose to be about the restuarant which is ranked in 08 09 as the best cheesesteak in Philly, above Pat's and Geno's. The restuarant located in the Borgata and Philly is more than notable, this article also needs a revamping, but definately a keep. Valoem   talk  16:31, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment - I'm not sure you're looking at the same article I am. The one I am reading is clearly about the guy: a photo of him, his birthdate, his minor film roles, etc. I'm not sure whose ratings you are citing for 2008 and 2009, though it likely doesn't matter. Numerous sources cite numerous best cheesesteaks on an annual basis -- none of them are particularly meaningful. Philadelphia Magazine, IIRC, has given the award to about 30 places in the past 15 to 20 years (sometimes using sub-categories for suburbs, best innovation, etc.). As for a Borgata location, their website seems to be unaware that there is a Tony Luke's there. For it's part, Tony Luke's site says, "All Tony Luke's Restaurants are located on East Oregon Avenue in South Philly." (That covers the cheesesteak stand and the "Beef and Beer" a block away.) Confusingly, the site also provides a link, labeled "Tony Luke's NYC", that points to a squatter. It seems a lot of the better known cheesesteak places occasionally try to expand: Pat's has a small sign at the window assuring that this is their only location, while a weathered sign on a nearby wall announces their location at the shore. As for press coverage, it's hard to miss all of the coverage of the so-called rivalry between Pat's and Geno's. That coverage plus the coverage of their claims to have created the sandwich (and occasional stunts by Vento) seem to guaruntee that they pass notability. Outside of that, you'll see occasional coverge of whomever happens to have space in (Bank du jour) Park -- based entirely on them being there. And there was a brief flurry over an otherwise non-notable guy losing his spot in RTM. I simply don't see the coverage for Luke. - SummerPhD (talk) 17:05, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment The "otherwise non-notable guy" is Pat Oliveri's grandson who's mentioned in the Pat's article. Tony Luke has been appearing on the food network quite a bit over the past year or two, promoting his "cheesesteak in a box" invention among other things.  He was on that "Man vs Food" show where a guy tried to eat some big sandwich from Tony Luke's. I guess "notability" is content-neutral but it seems unfair that Joey Vento's xenophobic garbage ensures his notabilty while Tony Luke showing up on the food network to actually talk about food isn't considered "notable."  Searching Google for a term as common as "Tony Luke" is tough but it looks like he and the restaurant are averaging about 8-10 hits per month on Google news (there's 8 for the last 30 days) which seems notable enough for a weak keep.  68.45.109.14 (talk) 23:11, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment - (Oliveri's "prince" of a grandson is not notable, except for the RTM blow-up coverage.) The Tony Luke, Jr. article still needs sources. (My point was not that Vento is notable. He isn't (so far). The coverage given Pat's and Geno's because of their mutually beneficial non-battle "battle" is enough to ensure their notability. Vento's buffoonery just adds some more sources.) - SummerPhD (talk) 03:06, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete - Is "Local Notability" really notability? IMHO, No. Article reads like self-promotion: he's an "actor, screenwriter, songwriter, restaurateur, and entrepreneur" Is this guy a Ronco product? "It slices! It dices! But wait! There's more." No thanks. Mtiffany71 (talk) 20:04, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.

 MTiffany and SummerPh.D's comments are crazily on the point - and brilliantly humorous too! If it were not for the fact that we don't arbitrarily check ip votes, I might not have relisted this AfD. But given what it is, relisting is inevitable. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,   Wifione    .......  Leave a message  04:37, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Note although I already voted, I want to second Mtiffany71's assertation that this guy isn't notable even in Philly. I lived there for years and still have strong ties there, and he's not notable there (or anywhere else). Andrew Lenahan -  St ar bli nd  11:57, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment He may not have been notable then but he certainly gets lots of news coverage now. I just saw him on TV last night in fact, he hosts an Eagles preview show called "Tony Luke's Eaglemania."  If a restauranteur is popular enough to host a show on a completely different topic, that would indicate notability IMO.  108.96.159.241 (talk) 00:45, 27 September 2010 (UTC) — 108.96.159.241 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Comment - "Then"? "Now"? Wha...? I've managed to find that Luke is indeed going to be "taping" a pre-game show. I have not managed to find that anyone will be "airing" this show. My niece's latest performance was taped. She's not (yet) notable. - SummerPhD (talk) 02:19, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Strong Keep I'm inclined to think some of the above comments are deliberately obtuse and possibly from Tony Luke rivals. I think his sandwiches are good and I like the pork italian but for cheesesteaks I prefer Rick's and Sonny's.  But stuff like the above, "I have not managed to find that anyone will be "airing" this show." are blatantly false.  Look up any TV listing guide from last Saturday night and it will show "Tony Luke's Eaglemania" as being aired last Saturday night, I believe at 1230am.  (Saturday night into Sunday.)  If you can't manage to find evidence that the show will be "aired" and use scare quotes around "aired" when you couldn't even be bothered to look at TV listings, you are pretty clearly being deliberately obtuse at best.  I wasn't even going to vote on this one since I thought it was close either way but if there are delete votes that are fabricating information, that is not good for the status of the Wiki.  68.244.152.19 (talk) 07:32, 28 September 2010 (UTC) — 68.244.152.19 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Comment - That I am, as of yet, unable to find any indication that the "taped" show was aired, that you like some of Luke's sandwiches, that you assume bad faith on the part of iseveral editors, etc. are not evidence that Tony Luke is notable. - SummerPhD (talk) 13:12, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment - Actually, some of you assumed bad faith when he said he watched the show and you didn't believe him. Not sure why you are all having trouble finding evidence that the show is on TV, just look up any TV listing guide and put in 1230am late Saturday night into early Sunday morning.  68.45.109.14 (talk) 10:32, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment - The article now mentions where and when the pre-game show airs. The local ABC affiliate, WPVI, airs the the show early this Sunday morning at roughly 12:10 AM. - SummerPhD (talk) 13:31, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment - can you provide a reference for that? An ABC schedule showing the program would be good. Pburka (talk) 23:08, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment Oh noes! We made someone vote on something that isn't a vote! I would feel bad but for that fact I don't care, except that what we're doing "is not good for the status of the Wiki," which does make me care, except I know better than to feed the concern trolls, but I just can't help myself cause they're just so ugly and fluffy they're CUTE! Mtiffany71 (talk) 06:00, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment he is rumored to be the owner of "The Fart Bar," the humourously named bar 173.124.88.201 (talk) 20:44, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.


 * Keep with a recommendation to rename to restaurant business. His website shows plenty of national press coverage that could be verified and converted into references from reliable sources. Wide coverage on national food tv shows. Cullen328 (talk) 04:42, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment - At the moment, the article lacks significant coverage in independent reliable sources. If his/the restaurant's website points to such coverage, please add sources to the article. - SummerPhD (talk) 12:36, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
 * I have no comment on the merits of this article, but if anyone is looking for the listing of the show on the TV schedule, see and look in the late Saturday night/Sunday morning listings. The show appears to be running at 12:05 AM on the ABC station in Philadelphia: "Tony Luke's Eaglemania -- Host Tony Luke presents a weekly, Philadelphia Eagles fan-friendly variety show, including pre-game antics consisting of pranks, stunts and scripted skits." That may not make the subject notable, but it proves his local television show exists. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 20:17, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep. I see a great need.  108.127.85.127 (talk) 16:30, 8 October 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.