Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Top Secret (magazine) (second nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 09:26, 4 April 2018 (UTC)

Top Secret (magazine)
AfDs for this article: 
 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

Should have been speedied, since it is a recreation of an article which was deleted just over a year ago, and has even less claim to notability now. All the current sources were available during the last AfD, and found lacking, which they still are. The rationale from the last AfD still exists.  Onel 5969  TT me 03:33, 20 March 2018 (UTC)


 * who closed the first instance of the AfD and who removed the G6 tag, could you explain further what's going on? Ajf773 (talk) 09:30, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
 * - I removed the G6 tag, as I believed the previous AfD was lacking (Due to editors not trusting non-English sources, and the idea that to pass GNG, sources need to be verifiable. I understand there is an argument for WP:THEREMUSTBESOURCES here; and that video game magazines sometimes struggle to establish notability, and as such wouldn't go against the deletion process, however, the article was re-created by another user, and removed the tag.


 * I apologies for this, as I (for whatever reason), I thought the AfD was older than it was. I then saw the article was PROD'd for a second time, which confused me, as I thought under WP:CONTESTED that once an article had it's PROD removed, it shouldn't be re-added and thus go to AfD. Is that wrong?  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 09:38, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Hi - I didn't Prod it, I nominated it for speedy deletion, citing the AfD from last year. Doesn't look like this particular incarnation of the article has ever been prodded. Once you removed the speedy (which you have every right to do, not being the article's creator), since I disagreed with your rationale for removing the speedy tag, I took it to AfD. Take care.  Onel 5969  TT me 13:37, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Ok thanks for clearing this up. From what it appeared to be an article not deleted from previous discussion, although I was confused because a second AfD for the recreated article was not started using the proper procedure. You're right that G6 wasn't the right tool to use. Ajf773 (talk) 17:29, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
 * I understand your confusion. G6 was not really applicable, but the article probably should have been deleted under WP:CSD.  If  disagreed with the prior closure, the best recourse is to WP:DRV.  I was tempted to re-delete the page under G4, but since we've gone to the trouble of starting another AfD, we may as well let it run its course.-- Mojo Hand (talk) 17:49, 20 March 2018 (UTC)


 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Poland-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 21:00, 22 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Journalism-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 21:00, 22 March 2018 (UTC)


 * Delete . No reliable sources introduced over what was previously included/discussed in last AfD. czar  21:47, 22 March 2018 (UTC)
 * I'm not usually one to badger, but I'm curious about your thoughts on the sources presented underneath, many of which are very SIGCOV in sources already vetted by the community. :)  Ben · Salvidrim!   &#9993;  01:02, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
 * , not badgering at all—I might not have seen otherwise. Ya, some are good, but I'd sooner say "few" than "many" when referring to the below sources' vetting... Just Vice, gry-online, Komputer Świat/Gamezilla, right? The latter two are the best and can be build out with the Vice interview. Between those, I can see enough stuff for an article. Nice sleuthing, . gadzetomania.pl lacks editorial info but is in a reliable media network. Not seeing any ready reason to rely on sources like http://polygamia.pl for statements of fact, though. Based on some of the previous sources, might make sense to have a wider article on Polish gaming magazines to house sections on the other Polish mags and for potential summary style split. Keep.  czar  13:35, 31 March 2018 (UTC)


 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Video games-related deletion discussions.  czar  22:25, 22 March 2018 (UTC)


 * Keep as creator. Magazine is clearly notable. Some sources:--Coin945 (talk) 01:05, 23 March 2018 (UTC)
 * The first Polish gaming magazine Top Secret raised a whole generation
 * Iconic Polish computer magazines. Bajtek, Top Secret, Mikroklan and others
 * 10 magazines that shaped gaming journalism in Poland
 * TOP SECRET - A HISTORY OF THE CULT MAGAZINE IN 9 COVERS
 * History of console magazines in Poland
 * Gaming magazines in a history of pictures
 * Cult newspapers - Top Secret
 * The legendary Top Secret magazine will return during Pixel Heaven 2017
 * Interview with Marcin "Borek" Borkowski.
 * Interview: My beginnings in Top Secret
 * Łukasz Czekajewski and Top Secret
 * History of Top Secret
 * That's how it was written - the history of the press about computer games in Poland
 * MAGAZINE ABOUT VIDEO GAMES IN POLAND. HISTORY AND PRESENT MARKET SITUATION
 * P.S. There should also be articles on magazines like: Świat Gier Komputerowych, Gry Komputerowe, PC Gamer Po Polsku, Oficjalny Polski PlayStation Magazyn, Reset, PSX Extreme, NEO, PC Games CD, NEO Plus, PSX Fan, MAN!AK, Konsola, Cybermycha, Play, Komputer Świat Gry. :)--Coin945 (talk) 01:28, 23 March 2018 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Sandstein   17:24, 27 March 2018 (UTC)


 * Strong Keep per Coin945 - Bias against non-English sources is a difficult beast to defeat but the coverage presented here represents high example of SIGCOV in RSes: lengthy pieces discussing the publication's legacy, impact and history in VICE and many other Polish sources already vetted at WP:VG/S) Ben · Salvidrim!   &#9993;  01:00, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Strong Keep - Still not sure why it was deleted when I created it the first time. Polish sources are as good as English equivelents.  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 14:09, 31 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Gry-OnLine is absolutelly top service, one of the bests in polish viedo game journalism and source on polish version Wikipedia. I think "Komputer Świat" is also good source. There are avaiable datas from Top Secret about number of released copies for few numbers (over 100 thousands). I don't own them, I can't confirm them. Eurohunter (talk) 14:56, 31 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep. Reliable Polish sources are obviously fine, though the language barrier can make it harder to evaluate them for non-Polish speakers.  However, the information here and at WP:VG satisfies me that there are enough reliable sources.-- Mojo Hand (talk) 17:23, 31 March 2018 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.