Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Toples


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   no consensus. Spartaz Humbug! 08:18, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

Toples

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This 3-sentences-of-text band article was PRODed under A7, as failing to reflect notability (it says little more than that the band exists). The PROD was removed, without any rationale at all being offered. It appears to lack notability under wp standards. Epeefleche (talk) 21:20, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions.  --Epeefleche (talk) 21:30, 26 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Phil Bridger (talk) 22:00, 26 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep - There is one source at the time of AFD that would indicate that this is a notable Polish music group. As I cannot read Polish, I am relying on machine translation, but this article appears to indicate that they were in the running to compete for Poland in Eurovision 2009.  Regardless of whether they did or didn't this is further evidence of notability in the form of coverage in a reliable source. -- Whpq (talk) 15:58, 27 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Hi Whpq. Are you suggesting that based on that one source they have satisfied GNG, or wp:nmusic 1 or 9?  I'm happy to have it kept if notable, but I don't see what criterion it satisfies.  Also, are we comfortable that the indicated posting by "dodano" is an RS? Thanks.  (BTW -- you do excellent work at these AFDs, I've noticed).--Epeefleche (talk) 16:08, 27 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Reply - The one source already in the article is from Gazeta Wyborcza, which is a major Polish Daily. I've named a second source above.  There appeared to be more coverage but it's very tough going when relying om machine translation.  Based on the two sources, and what appears to be more available in Google News, it would seem that the WP:GNG is satisified.  For sure the article needs significant work, but I will leave that to an editor that has some Polish language skills. -- Whpq (talk) 16:17, 27 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the clarification. I agree that the 1 source in the article is an RS.  I'm still uncertain whether the second source posting is an RS.  Also, that posting is not about the band.  Rather, it is about one individual -- Marcina Siegieńczuka (and simply mentions in a 2-sentence parenthetical and another 1-phrase mention that he is the Toples leader).  That brings into question whether such a mention -- even if the posting is an RS -- is what GNG calls for when it speaks of "significant coverage" (meaning that sources address the subject "directly in detail").  Best.--Epeefleche (talk) 16:39, 27 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Reply - It's not so much the specifics of these sources, as much as the indications in the content are that this is a notable Polish group. At AFD, we are trying to determine if an article is to be kept or deleted.  We do not need to have all the sourcing at hand if there are indications that support notability.  I think the two sources are indicative of notability, and we could keep the article so that somebody conversant in Polish could work on it.  But in any case, this article seems to indicate that Toples is notable and has had hit songs in Poland.  I realize that the article is unverified at this point, but there's no reason to disbelieve that they've had a career since 1998.  13 Years with 10 albums and coverage in a major Polish newspaper seems to me to point towards notability. -- Whpq (talk) 18:27, 27 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Hi. That's why I asked what criterion you were relying on.  You indicated GNG, but GNG requires that we have at hand "significant coverage" of the band, meaning that RS sources that we have seen address the subject "directly in detail".  Neither the second posting nor the third -- which may not be an RS -- discuss the band directly in detail.  The third source you mention appears to be in the nature of a posting regarding a charity concert, and while it does have a 3-4 sentence mention of the band, it doesn't seem to contribute much to satisfying the GNG requirements.--Epeefleche (talk) 18:44, 27 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep, reliable source tells us that this is a famous band which has had big hits (lack of proper Polish charts makes that harder to quantify as it would be in some countries, but that doesn't make the band any less deserving of our attention).--Kotniski (talk) 17:50, 29 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Spartaz Humbug! 04:22, 3 June 2011 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.