Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Torsten Liem


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. Consensus here, and previous precedent is that publication of academic books or peer-reviewed articles is part of the regular work of professors and not in itself sufficient to establish notability. Sjakkalle (Check!)  08:49, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

Torsten Liem

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No evidence of any notability for this Osteopath. All the very many references show that he exists and is a member of very many ostopathic organisations. Nothing shows that he is notable. I draftified this article which was moved to mainspace without review, but its author simply moved it back into mainspace. It would have been much better as a Draft to try and find better sources, but now it is in mainspace, the only option is deletion as it fails WP:GNG  Velella  Velella Talk  09:03, 21 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Medicine-related deletion discussions.  Velella  Velella Talk  09:03, 21 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Germany-related deletion discussions.  Velella  Velella Talk  09:03, 21 February 2020 (UTC)


 * Delete. The fact that there is no article on him in the German wiki but there are English-language profiles on him at multiple publishing sites leads to believe this is a promotional article to push his many textbooks. I don't think his G-index or H-index are high enough to qualify him as an academic. —МандичкаYO 😜 09:14, 21 February 2020 (UTC)

Hopefully someone with journal access who speaks German can take a look at these. Best.4meter4 (talk) 18:07, 29 February 2020 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Keep: Dear Velella and —Мандичка, thank you for your comments. I am new to Wikipedia and relocated the site to the mainspace a second time out of unknowingness. I am willing to provide further information to underscore the notability of Torsten Liem as an Osteopath. What kind of references and information would be suitable for that? Torsten Liem is arguably the most notable Osteopath in Germany. This school is renowned and provided the first university education for osteopathy in Germany. His textbooks are used overarchingly in German osteopathic education. He co-edited English-language books with prestigious osteopaths from the US (Anthony Chila), Belgium (Patrick Van Den Heede), Italy (Paolo Tozzi) and so on. He learned from pioneers of the osteopathic profession (like Viola Frymann and Robert Fulford) and maintains relations to osteopaths all around the globe (like Jean-Pierre Barral, Prof. Hollis King, Prof. Renzo Molinari). He initiates the largest annual osteopathic conference in Europe which is advertised by institutions like the Canadian Federation of Osteopaths and is visited by renowned osteopaths from all around the globe. Concerning his scientific credibility, Torsten Liem is the Founder of the German Journal Osteopathische Medizin (Osteopathic Medicine) and is a Member of the Advisory Board of the International Journal of Osteopathic Medicine (both being one of the two most read osteopathic journals). In my opinion, his global involvement within the osteopathic profession, education, and science justifies his occurrence within Wikipedia. Furthermore, there is a German article on Torsten Liem in German Wikipedia: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torsten_Liem. — Preceding unsigned comment added by EW.BL. (talk • contribs) 15:54, 21 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Comment. My university library got several hits on him in peer reviewed German language medical journals. I don't speak/read German, but these sources may (or may not) indicate notability. See:

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  MBisanz  talk 21:36, 29 February 2020 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Keep per WP:NACADEMIC. The subject has published many peer-reviewed articles and books in his field. --BonkHindrance (talk) 22:19, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
 * According to WP:NACADEMIC, publication does not confer notability. Only reception to that publication (eg, unusually high citation counts or significant coverage of the person's works or ideas) would do that. buidhe 02:33, 4 March 2020 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Sandstein   10:33, 8 March 2020 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: One last relist to see if anyone wants to confirm whether or not he meets WP:NPROF.
 * Weak delete, the article is clearly promotional and has mainly been edited by a single article editor, who came here to vote keep and spewed a bunch of none sense about why he's notable. Its pretty obvious he isn't though. Name dropping a bunch of people no one has heard of to establish faux notability instead of citing reliable sources just proves it. That said, I went with weak delete because there are the few German journal articles that might go toward notability. Although, it's doubtful and they probably wouldn't be enough on their own. --Adamant1 (talk) 10:48, 8 March 2020 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 02:32, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

According to the Wikipedia guidelines for academic notability one of the eight criteria must be fulfilled. Torsten Liem satisfies criteria 4 (“The person's academic work has made a significant impact in the area of higher education, affecting a substantial number of academic institutions. (…) Criterion 4 may be satisfied, for example, if the person has authored several books that are widely used as textbooks (or as a basis for a course) at multiple institutions of higher education”). His textbooks on cranial (Praxis der Kraniosakralen Osteopathie, 2019, Thieme, Stuttgart, ISBN 978-3-13-240461-8), visceral (Leitfaden viszerale Osteopathie, 2013, Elsevier, München, ISBN 978-3-437-56013-2), and parietal (Leitfaden Osteopathie: Parietale Techniken, 2016, Elsevier, München, ISBN 978-3-437-55783-5) osteopathy are primarily used by the two institutions of higher education offering osteopathy in Germany (Dresden International University and Fresenius University of Applied Sciences). — Preceding unsigned comment added by EW.BL. (talk • contribs)


 * Delete Fails WP:PROF, and nothing else seems applicable. Books being used at two schools is not the level of influence that WP:PROF is looking for. XOR&#39;easter (talk) 22:11, 16 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete does not meet any of the criteria of academic notability. Criteria #4 is not meant in this case.John Pack Lambert (talk) 02:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)


 * The discussion above is closed. <b style="color: #FF0000;">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.