Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Touché (quartet)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete.  Sandstein  19:41, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

Touché (quartet)

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Does not meet WP:BAND. Award mentioned does not meet the "major award" criteria required to demonstrate notability. RadioFan (talk) 14:28, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 15:42, 23 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Keep – Though it evidently does not meet the nominator's definition of "major music competition" (notability criterion 9), the subject's championship is the pinnacle of achievement for (24,000) members of the Sweet Adelines. Having won makes the quartet one of the most prominent representatives of the barbershop style (notability criterion 7). —ADavidB 16:38, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment The examples WP:MUSIC gives of major music awards are Grammy, Juno, Mercury, Choice or Grammis.  While I'm sure this qaurtet is proud of the recognition they received in the Sweet Adelines International competition.  It is a niche award and does not rise to the level of a Grammy or Juno.--RadioFan (talk) 22:04, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment The quartet under consideration won an international competition. Awards such as the listed examples are for a separate criterion item (no. 8). There are a dozen criteria, only one of which is necessary for notability. —ADavidB 05:58, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment WP:MUSIC#9 refers to winning or placing in a major music competition. (emphasis mine). I'm not convinced this competition rises to the level of "major". --RadioFan (talk) 05:27, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment Your interpretation is as I expected. Alas, that criterion doesn't define "major". The Sweet Adelines Competition Handbook provides full details on the quartet competition process, which involves preliminary regional/area contests, four judging categories, four- and 8-judge panels, penalties, multiple sessions, etc. According to the Denver Post write-up, about 6,000 people gathered for this year's international competition at the Pepsi Center. If such information still doesn't meet your or others' consideration of a major competition, notability criterion 7 still apples. —ADavidB 07:08, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment A single article on the competition in the local newspaper which mentions the group once does not demonstrate the group as "prominent representatives" of the style. A WP:BEFORE search on the group brings up no mentions in Google Books, only the Denver Post article in Google News and mostly self published or reference to self published material in Google Web searches.  Perhaps the commonality of the name is making it difficult to find reliable sources here?--RadioFan (talk) 13:59, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment I contend that this Sweet Adelines International barbershop quartet (out of about 1,200 registered) who won its most recent annual international competition in the barbershop style is automatically among the most prominent representatives of that style. —ADavidB 18:30, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

Comment If that is the case I would think there would be some reliable sources that could be used to demonstrate this. Are there no other references from somewhere other than the competition itself and a passing mention in the local paper?--RadioFan (talk) 22:19, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment With your self-described exclusionist leaning regarding article subjects, and your repeated dismissal of The Denver Post as a "local paper", I don't think I'll be changing your view. I've added another source (A Cappella News) and content to the Touché article, however. —ADavidB 04:00, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment "A Cappella News" is a self published blog not a reliable source. Also, let's stick to discussing the article and not other editors please.--RadioFan (talk) 18:06, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment The stated information on article exclusionism is linked via the signature of the above posts other than mine, and placed prominently in the third sentence there. A Cappella News sourcing is undone in the subject article. —ADavidB 16:00, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment Not sure what you are getting at. You are the only editor of this article except for my prod and subsequent AFD.--RadioFan (talk) 16:10, 27 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Mark Arsten (talk) 18:53, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

 
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Automatic Strikeout  ( T •  C ) 02:13, 6 December 2012 (UTC)




 * Delete the coverage seems to be strictly local, and AFACIT what there is seems only to be trivial mentions, insufficient to demonstrate notability.  Ohconfucius  ping / poke 03:01, 6 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment Denver was the host city for this year's international competition. None of the members of Touché are from Denver. This is now clearer in the article. —ADavidB 08:34, 6 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment That is not clear from the references. Are there reliable sources outside of Denver? --RadioFan (talk) 18:59, 6 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Delete - the coverage consists of a fleeting mention in the Denver Post article (a useful article all the same which I've addeed to Sweet Adelines International). The other cited articles seem to be general sources rather than talking about Touché. I can't find anything significant online, though it's not an easy name to search for (I'm willing to be proved wrong). Sionk (talk) 22:22, 6 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment The other content and cited articles are included to help convey the significance of a quartet's winning the international contest and the resultant prominent representation of its music style, a criterion for notability that seems too readily dismissed. —ADavidB 06:30, 7 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment Notability is established by coverage in 3rd party sources where the subject of the wikipedia article is the primary subject of the reference. Mentions in references about other subjects (such as the competition here) are great for validating specifics in the wikipedia article but do little to establish notability.  Even dozens of articles that mention the subject in passing dont equate to a single article where the subject of the wikipedia article is the primary subject of the reference.  If there were some reliable source that had written something about this group, where the group was the primary subject of the article, that would help here a lot.  After 2+ weeks and multiple editors involved, that's not happening.--RadioFan (talk) 15:51, 9 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment Third party coverage is one form of notability, though certainly not the only or there'd be little need for the Music notability criteria, on which this discussion is supposedly to be based. Exclusionist leanings aside, the subject of this article did win this year's international contest (first place, top scorer, received the title) which makes them a prominent representative of their (notable) music style. —ADavidB 18:20, 9 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment Another source happened. —ADavidB 08:13, 10 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Delete Not notable. --Sue Rangell ✍ ✉ 02:11, 8 December 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.