Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Treason laws in the United States


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. After reviewing the arguments on both sides of this I am not seeing an overwhelming policy based argument that leads to either a clear keep or delete. Given the level of participation (thanks to everyone who chimed in) I doubt a further relisting would help. This close is w/o prejudice to another nomination somewhere down the road if the article still appears subpar. But I would suggest a reasonable interlude before sending it back here to allow for possible improvements. Ad Orientem (talk) 04:33, 18 June 2017 (UTC)

Treason laws in the United States

 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

Fails WP:LISTN and WP:GNG, unsourced. Possibly redirect to Treason. ansh 666 01:29, 3 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Reading the below comments, I agree that the general topic could be worthy of an article. However, I feel like such an article would be more of a broad overview with possibly a sourced list of state/federal laws in it, and a better title would be Treason in the United States (currently also a redirect). Either way, this article is not it, hence my suggestion to redirect. ansh 666 18:28, 3 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks for improving this. I still stand by the above statement, but at this point it would be more expand and move than redirect and start over. ansh 666 16:13, 16 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your consideration of the edits. There is more work required to make it into a complete article, so I hope it sparks interest in a few more people. Jack N. Stock (talk) 18:05, 16 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 01:51, 3 June 2017 (UTC)


 * Delete Unsourced.-- Georgia Army Vet  Contribs  Talk  02:09, 3 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Law-related deletion discussions. Lepricavark (talk) 03:35, 3 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. Lepricavark (talk) 03:35, 3 June 2017 (UTC)


 * Keep and improve. US treason laws are verifiable and notable, and it is a valid topic for an article. Yes, it is only a list so far, but each of those list items could be a subheading. Plenty of reliable sources exist. "Unsourced" is not a reason to delete, it is a reason to find references and improve the article. There is much more to be known about treason laws in the US than can be included in the general treason article, particularly with 50 states each having their own laws (something that doesn't happen in other countries). The topic is valid, verifiable and notable. This is thinly veiled WP:IDONTLIKEIT. Jack N. Stock (talk) 03:38, 3 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete without prejudice of creating a real article. At present, it's sourced only by one general link to all the state laws covering every topic, which is effectively no source at all. Even if it were specific, it'd be WP:PRIMARY; and without more specific cites, it's impossible to determine whether this meets that policy's requirement "A primary source may only be used on Wikipedia to make straightforward, descriptive statements of facts that can be verified by any educated person with access to the primary source but without further, specialized knowledge."
 * I believe this is a notable topic, but none of the content present in the article can remain in its current form. A real article would discuss the definition(s) of treason; the balance of power between the state and federal governments, including the issue of preemption; and the penalties. This is just an indiscriminate unsourced list of penalties. Treason does a much better job of treating the subject than this attempt.
 * This !vote is not WP:IDONTLIKEIT; it's' a recognition that, once everything that is required by Wikipedia policy to be removed from the article is actually removed, there is nothing left. TJRC (talk) 18:01, 3 June 2017 (UTC)
 * WP:TNTTNT. Jack N. Stock (talk) 01:19, 4 June 2017 (UTC)


 * Weak keep. The sourcing to a single external database is insufficient, however this is a notable subject which deserves a page. My very best wishes (talk) 15:02, 5 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete Despite the claim inherent in the title the ONLY part of the law considered is the sentencing guideline. Given the nature of treason as defined, and the uh, "United" aspect of the United States I'm intrigued how Treason against one state wouldn't be treated as treason against all states (and so a Federal crime). There's the prospect of an interesting article there, but this article isn't it. WP:TNT. Cabayi (talk) 06:42, 6 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Your curiousity about how treason against one state might not be treated as treason against the United States is something that could be addressed in the article, which further evidences the notability of this topic. A good reason to keep. Jack N. Stock (talk) 11:34, 11 June 2017 (UTC)
 * The improvements are enough for me to withdraw my Delete !vote, but not yet enough for an enthusiastic keep. Sentencing guidelines need better referencing than the top page of a website. Cabayi (talk) 10:37, 16 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Crime-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 05:08, 8 June 2017 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, —MRD2014 talk contribs 18:14, 10 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Question Has there ever been an indictment for treason against a state?-- Georgia Army Vet  Contribs  Talk  18:43, 10 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes, I'll add it to the article. Jack N. Stock (talk) 11:01, 11 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Good question, by the way. Another good reason to keep. Jack N. Stock (talk) 11:34, 11 June 2017 (UTC)
 * At least 13 have been charged with treason against various states, six convicted (one received amnesty, the rest hanged). Jack N. Stock (talk) 03:36, 12 June 2017 (UTC)


 * Keep per WP:HEY and WP:ODD. Bearian (talk) 02:30, 16 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete -- the list as it currently stands just provides the info on the penalties. This content is almost completely unsourced. Delete per WP:V & somewhat off topic content. K.e.coffman (talk) 20:11, 17 June 2017 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.