Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Trento-Bondone Hill Climb


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. Courcelles 20:05, 23 December 2013 (UTC)

Trento-Bondone Hill Climb

 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

The topic appears to be non-notable. I cannot find any mention of the topic in Google News and only insignificant mentions at Google Books. At present, the article cites only a single, primary source. The Trento-Bondone Hill Climb is said to be part of the European Hill Climb Championship which has zero citations. — Keithbob •  Talk  • 20:51, 9 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Strong keep. I don't think you can find any of these on Google News, since hillclimbing is a niche sport. Still, Trento-Bondone is an official track of the European Hill Climb Championship. You can find the official site of the FIA inside the article.--Enok (talk) 00:39, 10 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: Enok is the article creator who I commend for their contributions to the pedia. However, I'm also hopeful we will hear from some uninvolved editors as well. Thank you to all for your participation.-- — Keithbob • Talk  • 18:49, 13 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Italy-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 16:19, 10 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 16:19, 10 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sports-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 16:19, 10 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Mark Arsten (talk) 00:20, 16 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Strong keep - It's a hillclimb track used in an FIA sanctioned continental event. Evidence is really not hard to find;. Given that this is fairly high up on a generic Google search, I'm questioning whether WP:BEFORE was really adhered to; given that the first route, and the route that turns up the most sources, which is to simply Google it, was clearly not followed. Luke no 94  (tell Luke off here) 22:17, 16 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Comment- That appears to be a primary source. I don't see how it establishes notability for a stand alone article. Has it ever received any news coverage of any kind?-- — Keithbob • Talk  • 20:29, 18 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Keith, I think you're missing the point entirely. Yes, the source is primary, but it also shows that this is a track used for an FIA-sanctioned continental-level event - far more than is generally required for notability. If you're not going to accept that standard procedure, which I can only assume is due to a lack of motor racing knowledge, then things such as exist (which is quite in-depth, and is definitely a WP:RS); there's more here - indeed, a Google Books search pulls up 184 results across 24 books, almost all of which are at least passing mentions. We're not talking some obscure track that was used once here, but one that has been used at continental and even international level going back to at least the 1960s.  Luke no 94  (tell Luke off here) 20:42, 18 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Hi Luke, My apologies, I probably didn't make my self clear so I'll be more specific. WP has guidelines for notability and the sources you have provided unfortunately don't meet the guideline. WP:EVENT specifies "an event must receive significant or in-depth coverage to be notable"......."The general guideline is that coverage must be significant and not in passing. In-depth coverage includes analysis that puts events into context, such as is often found in books, feature length articles in major news magazines (like Time, Newsweek, or The Economist), and TV news specialty shows (such as 60 Minutes or CNN Presents in the US, or Newsnight in the UK)."  So far you've provided a listing in a primary source   and a passing mention in a motoring magazine article about road N45.   You have mentioned a Google search result, however WP:HITS says: A raw hit count should never be relied upon to prove notability.   In my initial posting I admitted that the event can be found in a number of books but only as a listing or one line mention as seen  on this Google search page.  So in-depth coverage has not been demonstrated and I don't see how the TB Hillclimb meets the WP:EVENT's requirement for significant, in-depth coverage in reliable secondary sources. I understand your enthusiasm for the topic, and I'm happy to relent if appropriate sources can be found, but so far I'm just not seeing it.  -- — <b style= "color:#085;">Keithbob</b> •  Talk  • 02:41, 20 December 2013 (UTC)--<span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS,sans -serif"> — <b style= "color:#085;">Keithbob</b> •  Talk  • 03:37, 20 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Please don't try and patronize me as if I was a new editor with no idea how Wikipedia works. The Motoring.com.au source is far from a passing mention; have you even bothered reading it? There are several paragraphs dedicated to just this one hillclimb. The FIA source was never presented as anything other than proof of what the track is - something used in a FIA-sanctioned continental event. That is immediately enough for notability; the fact that an Australian motoring magazine opted to go all the way to Italy, and included it in their rosta of things to drive, also says a lot. It's also featured on a few racing games, but that won't convince you either, obviously. There's more than a passing mention here, and there are also things such as, , , , ... Like I said, notability is not just slightly met, but smashed with flying colours. Luke no 94  (tell Luke off here) 12:14, 20 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Keep Took a few minutes to find a ref written in English but added a short description of the course and a citation. Time, Newsweek and the Economist don't cover hill climbs but the course and annual race are covered in motoring and racing periodicals. The article is a stub and needs TLC from an editor interested in motor sports but WP:UGLY isn't a reason to delete. The notability of the climb and course appear well documented in continental motor sports journals and websites. This course is a historic venue used since 1925. Finding more sources in English or translating non-English sources will take time and effort. Google translate doesn't do well translating motor sports terminology so humans familiar with auto racing jargon will be needed to do adequate translations. DocTree (ʞlɐʇ·ʇuoɔ) Join WER 04:11, 23 December 2013 (UTC)
 * I fully intend, when this AfD closes, to go and do some work on it. I have a (very) limited knowledge of Italian, which may or may not help - I am definitely familiar with a lot of English auto racing jargon though. Luke no 94  (tell Luke off here) 14:02, 23 December 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.