Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Trevor Blokdyk


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was speedy keep. Nomination withdrawn. (non-admin closure) 4meter4 (talk) 14:38, 10 August 2021 (UTC)

Trevor Blokdyk

 * – ( View AfD View log )

Fails WP:SIGCOV. Only one source which doesn't verify most of the content in the article. Driver never won or made a significant placement in a race. Possibly contains original research. 4meter4 (talk) 19:36, 9 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 19:49, 9 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Motorsport-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 19:49, 9 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of South Africa-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 19:49, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

Keep – Blokdyk was a Formula One driver, participated at the very highest level of motor sport, and as such is inherently notable. I do wonder why the proposer often brings inherently notable subjects to AfD. Bretonbanquet (talk) 19:51, 9 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Fundamentally I disagree that subjects without significant coverage in sources should have articles, simply because they are often full of unverified content resting on original research or sources which aren't of quality. In short, I believe in the value of WP:GNG which is currently not demonstrated in this article. I have made no secret about my critical views of SNGs at WP:NSPORT which often ignore WP:SPORTCRIT. Please provide sources to show this article meets SIGCOV and SPORTCRIT. Best.4meter4 (talk) 19:56, 9 August 2021 (UTC)
 * You say he never won a race – the article says he won two, so what are you attempting to do here? In any case, a driver's notability is not founded on winning races. Yes, the article needs sources, but bringing it here is just a waste of people's time. If you want sources to be provided, ask for them without itching to get notable subjects deleted. Did you actually look for sources? Bretonbanquet (talk) 20:00, 9 August 2021 (UTC)
 * No, the article says he participated in two. Not won two. Yes I did look for sources, but this isn't my area of expertise in research.4meter4 (talk) 20:01, 9 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Maybe I'm mistaken in the assumption that you read the article. " He continued in Formula Junior in 1964 and then moved into Formula 3 and scored some good results, including a win at Magny-Cours and Nogaro." There are literally thousands of less notable drivers than Blokdyk. Bretonbanquet (talk) 20:04, 9 August 2021 (UTC)
 * As far as I understand, those are not notable races (I shouldn't had to clarify that I was referring to notable races earlier; i.e. Formula 1). Winning a couple Formula 3 races isn't notable. Regardless, please read WP:BURDEN. It's not my fault that this article is mostly unverified and can be challenged under policy here at AFD. If he truly is as notable as you are claiming it should not be all that difficult to present evidence here. Best.4meter4 (talk) 20:08, 9 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Winning Formula Three races is indeed notable, as is participating at Formula One level. No, it wasn't difficult at all; you could have done it yourself. I look forward to you closing this at your earliest opportunity. Bretonbanquet (talk) 20:35, 9 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Frankly, I am not impressed with any of the sources you just added; none of which rise to the level of significant coverage. Sports stats pages without any prose or analyses by a contributing author aren't notable, and Who's Who publishes self authored biographies without much editorial oversight (although maybe not in this case?; I need to investigate further). So, no, I will not be withdrawing my nomination at this point.4meter4 (talk) 20:40, 9 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Well, I suppose we will see how this goes. These are perfectly adequate sources, which are used across the entire range of motor sport articles. Your comment about the Who's Who book is wildly inaccurate. I look forward to you taking several hundred Formula One driver articles to AfD; maybe you can fit in a World Champion or two while you're at it. Bretonbanquet (talk) 20:46, 9 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes I am aware that sports databases are widely used, and that is fine because they are accurate. The issue with them in determining notability is they provide stats on every athlete, with no discrimination. WP:INDISCRIMINATE applies here. Just because something is verifiable doesn't make it notable. What would be helpful would be an article with prose about Trevor Blokdyk from Motorsport Magazine or a newspaper feature on Trevor Blokdyk, or a book with a detailed account of his career in the sport. Something that puts his career in context to the field, and demonstrates why he is a notable athlete. If nobody outside wikipedia, other than stats tables, has written on him (and by that I mean he is the main subject) than we probably shouldn't have an article on him. I'll take a closer look at Who's Who's, but my own experience with that publication was that people could pay to get their name and bio included within my profession. Best.4meter4 (talk) 20:51, 9 August 2021 (UTC)
 * I disagree about your interpretation of "significant coverage". In any case, WP:INDISCRIMINATE clearly does not apply here; which section are you suggesting does? The Who's Who book does exactly what you are asking for, providing a prose article about Blokdyk with a detailed account of his career across several motor sport series. You might be confusing it with Who's Who (UK). This is a fully referenced collection of motor sport biographies. I obviously cannot copy and paste Blokdyk's entry into the article. Newspaper articles about the man would be over 50 years old, so it's a big ask. Bretonbanquet (talk) 21:03, 9 August 2021 (UTC)
 * I am referring to the broader policy of indiscriminate and not one of the subsections where it states, "merely being true, or even verifiable, does not automatically make something suitable for inclusion in the encyclopedia". The spirit of INDISCRIMINATE is articulated further in terms of notability at WP:NRV; which might have been a better policy to link to earlier. Basically, sports databases are about providing a complete statistic for every single athlete without making distinctions between players, analyzing their contributions or careers, or indicating the significance or notability of their contributions. In short, they are just stats without interpretation/analysis and don't demonstrate significant coverage.4meter4 (talk) 21:22, 9 August 2021 (UTC)
 * The Small book (Who's Who) is not a database of any sort and is most assuredly a "credible and authoritative book". If we can discuss sources which are not present in the article per WP:NEXIST, then the book "Sun on the Grid" (by Stewart & Reich) will have coverage of Blokdyk. Any contemporary newspaper and magazine coverage of the SA F1 championships of 1963 and 1964 will discuss Blokdyk. These are not easy or cheap sources to obtain. I realise motor sport is not your field of expertise, but there are hundreds of articles on drivers who never even reached Formula Two, let alone Formula One. I suggest you might find more serious candidates for deletion along them. I find the idea that a driver can reach the top level of his sport, yet might never have been discussed in the press hard to take seriously. Remember that sources such as those you describe on subjects from many decades ago are not all reproduced on the internet. Bretonbanquet (talk) 22:05, 9 August 2021 (UTC)
 * I have no particular interest in nominating motorsports related articles on mass at AFD, so you can drop the sarcasm and hyperbole. Ultimately the WP:Burden of adding material to the encyclopedia is to do so from quality references. Nobody said editing was always easy. The work is what the work is. I write lots of articles on topics with less permissible SNGs, which means I spend a lot of time going through newspaper and journal articles going back into even the 18th and 19th centuries. (my main interest is classical music/opera). If I can do it so can you. 4meter4 (talk) 22:10, 9 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Absolutely no sarcasm intended. I suggest you look at a few of the articles of the type I mentioned. I do wonder why you spend your time trying to delete articles on a subject you know nothing about, especially having failed in the recent past to get F1 driver articles deleted. This article is now adequately sourced anyway, in my opinion (and you seem to have forgotten the Small source). You will disagree, I have no doubt. Let others have their say. Bretonbanquet (talk) 22:35, 9 August 2021 (UTC)
 * As I come across articles that appear non-notable, I nominate them after a WP:BEFORE search. It's as simple as that. Thank you for taking the time to add references and improve the article.4meter4 (talk) 22:52, 9 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Not at all, it needed to be done. You have at least flagged a poorly sourced article, and brought about its improvement. Others may have more sources to add. Bretonbanquet (talk) 22:56, 9 August 2021 (UTC)


 * Keep - After just a few minutes of searching online, I was able to find a short biography on Old Racing Cars, an article with some coverage in Motorsport Magazine from 2006 (last 3 paragraphs), and a pdf of a chapter of a Speedway history book where he is mentioned numerous times . These along with the two book sources already on the article and the Motorsport Magazine database entry (for verification of Bio info; the DriverDB source should probably be removed as that is not a reliable source), along with no doubt contemporary articles in South African sources as well as British speedway publications should more than satisfy GNG. A7V2 (talk) 01:44, 10 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Speedy keep, subject is a Formula One driver and is thus presumed notable. Enough sources currently in the article to satisfy WP:SIGCOV anyway. 5225C (talk &bull; contributions) 07:44, 10 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep - Enough sources to be notable. WP:NOTCLEANUP Park3r (talk)
 * Keep - There are two sources which are entitled "Trevor Blokdyk biohraphy" which have been added since this page was nominated. These sources mean that the noms rationale no longer holds true. WP:SIGCOV is no longer an issue. SSSB (talk) 08:16, 10 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep - F1 drivers are typically considered notable. Sources have been added to address that particular issue also. Eagleash (talk) 10:28, 10 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep - Article appears to be appropriately sourced. Drivers of this era may be harder to find sources for online, however the likelihood of suitable sources being impossible to find for a driver who had even a brief and unsuccessful Formula One World Championship career is vanishingly small, as evidenced by the frequent profiles of also-rans of past eras seen in various publications which cover the topic. HumanBodyPiloter5 (talk) 14:29, 10 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment. Users Bretonbanquet and 5225C have substantially improved the article with better references since I nominated it. I believe WP:SIGCOV has been established and I will be withdrawing the nom presently. Thanks to all who participated.4meter4 (talk) 14:36, 10 August 2021 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.