Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Trollheim's Grott


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep, or at least no consensus to delete, despite lack of proof of notability. More references are needed though. Canley (talk) 04:22, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Trollheim's Grott
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Little or no significant coverage found, and none included in the article by way of references. Band appears to lack sufficient notability. Michig (talk) 14:30, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions.   —Pixelface (talk) 15:19, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep. There are independent, usable online sources (http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll, see Google results). --Oldak Quill 15:38, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment. Such as? AMG don't have anything to say about the band.--Michig (talk) 15:47, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Sorry, about the bad link: http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=11:dzfixqudldhe~T00). Information there includes an independent description of genre, discography, record label, and a song list. Also, the band's profile at their record company's website. I'm sure there are more reliable sources to find (Google has ~32k hits). The limitation is that they are a Finnish metal band, so someone would need to navigate through some Finnish/metal websites. --Oldak Quill 17:35, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment Neither of those is a reliable source showing independent coverage of the band, which would make a huge difference regarding notability.--Michig (talk) 17:50, 9 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Keep. Two albums on a small label, but every member of this band is or was in at least one other notable band, such as Ajattara, Swallow the Sun, Demilich, Darkwoods My Betrothed, Deathchain or Turmion Kätilöt. There are some good sources available, such as this. Prolog (talk) 17:31, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment. None of those bands have articles here with references to prove notability. If references to reliable independent sources showing significant coverage can be found, I'll be happy to consider withdrawing the nomination. Thanks.--Michig (talk) 17:50, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
 * There is a general lack of references in articles about metal music groups. It's a good thing Wikipedia is a work in progress. Prolog (talk) 20:37, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
 * There is no indication in the article that they pass WP:BAND and no references. Even a new stub should have those if it's going to be kept. This article's been here for 3 and a half years.--Michig (talk) 21:39, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

 Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Moonriddengirl (talk) 00:22, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Note. I did check for Wikipedia articles in other languages, but there is only an article on the Swedish WP, also completely lacking in references.--Michig (talk) 17:59, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.


 * Keep. The players in the band have been in other notable bands.  WP:MUSIC lists that as one of the criteria.  As per other links that have been given, they seem to have received media coverage, just not in English.  If someone who speaks the language could browse some websites and provide us with translations/summaries of their coverage, it'd be great, and it would go towards fulfilling even more criteria for this type of article.  Cel  Talk to me  02:52, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment. Can anyone provide a reliable source that demonstrates that a member of this band has been in one of the bands listed above and a reliable source that demonstrates that one of those bands passes WP:BAND? Any significant coverage of this band in reliable sources? --Michig (talk) 08:08, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Reply: this demonstrates some of the players relation to the Deathchain group and the Darkwoods My Betrothed group, among a number of others. This means they pass WP:BAND.  Rather than spending so much time and energy trying to delete the article, why don't you help improve it?  Cel  Talk to me  14:18, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment. Metal Archives is not what I would call a reliable source, as the information on the site is editable. I was unable to find any coverage in reliable sources with which to improve the article, so there's nothing that I can use to improve the article. Apparently, nobody else has been able to find anything either in the three and a half years this article has been here.--Michig (talk) 14:26, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Reply: That information is also available here and here. Also, I respectfully disagree with you (and WP, apparently) that other wikis do not constitute reliable sources simply because of their openness. That's akin to saying OSS doesn't work because it's open.   Cel  Talk to me  14:40, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment. We're not here to discuss policy, just to apply it.--Michig (talk) 14:52, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Reply: Yes, well, in any case, it should be eminently clear now that members of this band have been members of other bands, in addition to receiving non-english media coverage on sites such as this. more than passes this group on WP:MUSIC.  Cel  Talk to me  15:30, 16 March 2008 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.