Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Troy Sanders


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   merge to Mastodon (band). T. Canens (talk) 06:13, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

Troy Sanders

 * – ( View AfD View log )

Fails WP:BAND, not notable independent of Mastodon (band). Suggested merge (Talk:Mastodon_(band)) was ignored, save one comment that I should "Try to improve the article first before make this kind of comment." After 1 month, redirected to the band. This was reverted by the commenting editor, suggesting AfD. I still cannot find any evidence of notability independent of Mastodon, so here we are. SummerPhD (talk) 04:02, 29 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions.  —Michaela den (talk) 12:38, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions.  — -- Cirt (talk) 17:37, 3 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ron Ritzman (talk) 01:59, 5 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep per WP:BAND criteria 1 and 7.--Malconfort (talk) 15:31, 5 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment - "Note that members of notable bands are redirected to the band's article, not given individual articles, unless they have demonstrated individual notability for activity independent of the band, such as solo releases." WP:BAND For #1: Virtually no coverage has been found discussing Sanders independent of the band. For #7: No sources indicate this. - SummerPhD (talk) 18:19, 5 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep – From WP:BAND, "Please note that the failure to meet any of these criteria does not mean an article must be deleted; conversely, meeting any of these criteria does not mean that an article must be kept." Musician guidelines aside, Troy Sanders does appear to meet the general notability guideline criteria, which is only seeking a wealth of sources and information. Though the article needs some sprucing up, the references definitely meet WP:RS—most notably the feature in a magazine specifically for bass guitarists. Fezmar9 (talk) 22:18, 5 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment - In other words, ignoring WP:BAND, which specifically excludes "publications where the musician or ensemble talks about themselves (which is all of the sources in the article). The question here is not whether there is sufficient information, the question is whether he is notable independent of the band. - SummerPhD (talk) 22:32, 5 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment - According to the discussion page archives, interviews are perfectly acceptable. Fezmar9 (talk) 22:40, 5 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment - From the first one: "Interviews, unless they include a substantial element of independent commentary on a band/artist, e.g. an introductory section, are not great sources for establishing notability". From the second: "If someone is interviewed in Rolling Stone, they're notable. If someone is interviewed for an independent podcast, that's zero contribution to notability." (None of them are Rolling Stone. Also in the first as "If it's in Rolling Stone? Absolutely. If it's on a Wordpress blog? Not in the least."). Additionally, these are discussing notability of a band. We're talking about a member of the band. The guideline is abundantly clear that we are looking for coverage that demonstrates "notability for activity independent of the band, such as solo releases". Take a look at the titles of all of the sources. None of them are about simply "Troy Sanders", they are all about "Troy Sanders of Mastodon" (two of them), "Mastodon's Troy Sanders" or "Mastodon". Compare someone clearly notable independent of their band: John Lennon, Bono, etc. They certainly didn't have to write "John Lennon of the Beatles" or "U2's Bono" because they are notable independent of their respective bands. If you wish to ignore the guideline, please explain why. - SummerPhD (talk) 22:58, 5 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Redirect to the band. Stifle (talk) 08:45, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Merge rather than delete; that has been the usual outcome where a band member does not get independent coverage, but there are still some addtional sources. Bearian (talk) 17:14, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.