Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Trump administration family separation policy


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was speedy keep. WP:SKCRIT - no rationale for deletion presented. Even if the nom (who has less than 50 total edits) makes claims about political bias in the media that are correct, it would still be a notable topic. (non-admin closure) power~enwiki ( π, ν ) 22:14, 10 January 2019 (UTC)

Trump administration family separation policy

 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

The article is about a non-existing policy. The whole article is based on false statements in "reputable news sources" and misunderstandings of a rather complex topic. Due to the enormous political polarization in the U.S. news media, many of the large news organizations ended up prioritizing a blame game for the humanitarian crisis at the border and creating political narratives rather than correctly and truthfully reporting the cause of the family separations. The Trump Zero Tolerance Policy did not contain one word about separating families. The quote from Jeff Session in this article relating to this, is used to falsely imply that the Zero Tolerance Policy was responsible, but if you read the quote then the last part of it reveals the ACTUAL cause of the separations: "If you cross the border unlawfully ... then we will prosecute you. If you smuggle an illegal alien across the border, then we'll prosecute you. ... If you're smuggling a child, then we're going to prosecute you, and that child will be separated from you, probably, as REQUIRED BY LAW."

The only cause of those family separations was a 2016 court ruling on the Flores Settlement(which partly reversed a 2015 ruling). No policy of the Trump administration changed anything in this regard. The executive order that Trump issued that finally solved this crisis did NOT reverse, remove or change the Zero Tolerance Policy in any way. It is still fully effective. The executive order only directed the Attorney General to request with the U.S. District Court to change the Flores settlement. Here is that relevant section from the executive order:

(e) The Attorney General shall promptly file a request with the U.S. District Court for the Central District of California to modify the Settlement Agreement in Flores v. Sessions, CV 85-4544 (“Flores settlement”), in a manner that would permit the Secretary, under present resource constraints, to detain alien families together throughout the pendency of criminal proceedings for improper entry or any removal or other immigration proceedings.

For more background on this issue, I recommend reading the wording of the Zero Tolerance Policy, and reading the Flores Settlement(originally from 1997), and all the subsequent revisions of it, especially the 2015 court ruling and the 2016 part reversal of the 2015 court ruling. This article has many "reputable" sources, but is nonetheless false and biased propaganda from the title to large parts of the text. I strongly recommend it be deleted. BreakingZews (talk) 08:23, 10 January 2019 (UTC)


 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Politics-related deletion discussions. Sheldybett (talk) 09:38, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. Sheldybett (talk) 09:38, 10 January 2019 (UTC)


 * Keep: meets WP:GNG, obviously. If the nom believes that the name of the article is wrong, then the process for this is WP:RM, not AfD. K.e.coffman (talk) 10:10, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Obvious keep: Extensively covered. One of the big political issues of 2018 in the largest Western democracy. Snooganssnoogans (talk) 11:20, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Weak Delete: While the subject matter is notable, I question whether the title is appropriate, and the content also reads in a manner more similar to a propaganda piece WP:SOAP than a suitable entry in an encyclopedia, with an almost exclusive focus on one side of the issue - and while WP:FALSEBALANCE is a thing, I do not believe it applies here, given that the contrary view is not WP:FRINGE. With that said, I also suspect that this deletion proposal is motivated by ideology, abet in the opposite direction, given the interest in an outright delete and no interest in repairing the article. As such, my position is a weak delete, with the intent of such a deletion being that a clean slate is created for a new article covering this topic, but with a neutral point of view and a more accurate title - WP:STARTOVER. NoCOBOL (talk) 11:49, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Just because the U.S. President and numerous high-level members of his administration push falsehoods and WP:FRINGE theories, this doesn't suddenly make those views non-fringe. Snooganssnoogans (talk) 11:58, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Perhaps not, but the simple fact that the leader of the most powerful nation in the world holds a view generally suggests it is not fringe, particularly on topics like this where the validity of a view cannot be proven or disproven. Equally importantly, this view is not fringe amongst the general American Population; iirc 25% of said group supports it. NoCOBOL (talk) 12:06, 10 January 2019 (UTC)


 * Keep. It may need a new title, but the subject is notable QuiteUnusual (talk) 11:53, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Comment Frankly, I question your judgement. Clearly you have an agenda here. If you don’t think the article is accurate then take your qualms to the talk page to improve it! Trillfendi (talk) 16:01, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Speedy keep. Nomination is frivolous. Neutralitytalk 16:45, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Comment Much more than just the name of the article is wrong. Almost the entire article is based on pure political propaganda WP:SOAP. This article is simply amplifying one of the most extensively propagated falsehoods I have ever seen in the U.S. media. Wikipedia should be about presenting factual information, not just presenting false media reports with obvious political bias as truth. There was no Trump administration family separation policy. The family separations were a direct consequence of the court rulings on the Flores settlement. Those are the facts, still the article is entirely based around this incorrect notion that the family separations were a result of a Trump policy. BreakingZews (talk) 19:05, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Believe that all you want, but yours are alternative facts. The Trump policy is not a continuation of Obama policy. – Muboshgu (talk) 19:28, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Speedy keep This appears to be a POV nomination arguing that Trump has the same "family separation policy" as Obama. He doesn't. (I know that source is the Washington Post, and therefore Trump defenders can yell "FAKE NEWS!" all they want to ignore it.) – Muboshgu (talk) 19:20, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep The topic is notable and widely discussed in reliable sources. Our job is to summarize neutrally what the full range of reliable sources say. Rejecting reliable sources that come to conclusions that some editors do not like for political reasons is contrary to the policies and guidelines of this enyclopedia. Cullen328  Let's discuss it  19:50, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Comment Trump had no policy of separating families, and I have not said anything about Obama or his policies. The facts are easily available without the political distortion in the heavily polarized U.S. media, by accessing the documents involved directly. Read the Zero Tolerance Policy, it does not contain a single word about separating families, and read the 2015 and 2016 court rulings on the Flores settlement. The 2015 ruling ordered that both "accompanied children" and their mother/parents should not be held in detention, while the 2016 ruling partly reversed the 2015 ruling in such a way that it did not cover the children's parents. Meaning that applying the law ment that the parents should be prosecuted and detained while the children could not be detained due to the 2016 ruling. That 2016 ruling is the cause of increase in family separations after Trump became President. Those are the facts. There has never been any Trump policy of separating families, and if you contest that, then please point to that policy and the wording that orders the separation of children from their families. It doesn't exist. The Trump administration does have a policy of following the law, including the rulings on the Flores settlement. BreakingZews (talk) 20:34, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Comment There was an enormous misinformation campaign on this issue in the U.S. media, including(or even especially) in what often has been considered "reliable sources", WA PO, NYT, CNN, MSNBC, and many others. Wikipedia should not be amplifying political propaganda. The Zero Tolerance Policy simply ment that illegal immigrants that (obviously) break the law by entering the country unlawfully should be prosecuted according to the law, no exceptions. The Flores settlement was the only reason that the children and parents could not be kept together when the parents were detained. Here is a link to the 2016 ruling on the Flores settlement Flores Settlement 2016 ruling   And here is a link to the Jeff Sessions memo on Zero Tolerance Policy: Zero Tolerance Policy  BreakingZews (talk) 21:28, 10 January 2019 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.