Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Trump resistance


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Right now there's a pretty clear consensus to delete, and that's how I'll close this. There is no doubt that from an original attack/SYNTH page this has been greatly improved (thanks to NewsandEventsGuy and E.M.Gregory), but "essentially POV" wasn't the only argument brought up to delete. I cannot redirect this since there are too many options provided, even if a number of editors agree on one of them ("Protests against Donald Trump"), because E.M.Gregory makes a good argument for "Anti-Trump movement". If there is content in the current article that editors feel should be recovered to merge into another article, we can do that later--if there's agreement on it. Drmies (talk) 17:21, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

Trump resistance

 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

Poorly written polemic that fails WP:NPOV, written by blocked user. Example of poor sourcing used to push a POV showing only purpose of page: I had to remove a source from 2007 used to cite supposed claims for 2016 about " the liberal biased news media". Appears to have been written as a WP:BLP attack page. Sagecandor (talk) 12:59, 6 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Whole thing appears to be WP:SYNTH strung together by the personal POV of the writer. Example:
 * News media outlets, that began the reporting on the unsubstantiated claim of the Trump campaign and the Russians colluding to steal the presidential election from the Democrat Party candidate, and then persisted in speculation about criminal charges and impeachable offenses. --
 * The cited sources for this do not mention "Trump resistance". Sagecandor (talk) 13:05, 6 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Another example: Social justice warriors (SJW’s), enabled by the academy and coddled by Hillary Clinton, who were fueled by a mix of intolerance and entitlement, began to consider what they’ll do next. (Sourced to the New York Post). -- Really ??? Sagecandor (talk) 13:07, 6 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 13:17, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: Delete/Redirect??
 * Delete ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants   Tell me all about it.  13:27, 6 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Weak KeepUnsure about this, yes there appears to be a "trump Resistance, and as we have a pages on a similar (according to at least one source) groups (like the tea party) I see no reason not to have this one. but yes it is also heavy reliant on Synthases. It needs a lot of work.Slatersteven (talk) 13:29, 6 June 2017 (UTC) Some sources  And websites dedicated to it
 * Keep but refocus? My first thought was in alignment with nom, this feels like an attack page and filled with OR, and I still think it does meet the last. However, there have been a lot of criticism of Trump of various forms and I am surprised we don't have an article on Criticism of Donald Trump's Presidency, which would be a valid topic (when careful NPOV adherence is used) and would help group all the various efforts between pre-election and post-election aspects. This article could be used as that basis but it would absolutely need refocusing to be a proper "Criticism of..." article to avoid issue with NPOV. It should heavily rely on existing articles when the do exist, eg touching on Stop Trump movement, or the appropriate Protests against Donald Trump. I do not think there is, without engaging in OR, a true "resistance" here in as there being one singular group, but there definitely are numerous criticisms towards Trump that is reflected here. Barring that, I would otherwise agree that maybe  WP:TNT could apply and would alternatively !vote delete for this in favor of a better article start. --M ASEM  (t) 13:40, 6 June 2017 (UTC)
 * I think you're right about WP:TNT in this particular case, as WP:BLP attack page riddled with POV backed up to terrible sources like Infowars.com. Sagecandor (talk) 13:49, 6 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Yeah, there's sourcing issues too. Again, I think there's a theme here that is a valid topic if turned around into a standard en.wiki apporach, but TNT is probably best in the long run due to the sources that have been used in this current version. --M ASEM (t) 13:52, 6 June 2017 (UTC)
 * So how do we go about WP:TNT for WP:Attack page ? Sagecandor (talk) 14:21, 6 June 2017 (UTC)
 * It would be a possible result of this AFD closure. --M ASEM (t) 14:24, 6 June 2017 (UTC)
 * We could merge it to Protests against Donald Trump. Or we could TNT it, rename it to a more encyclopedic name, such as Resistance to the Trump administration, and merge the protests page into it, though that might make the article too big. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants   Tell me all about it.  14:34, 6 June 2017 (UTC)
 * I'd support WP:TNT followed by redirect, needs to be deleted to get rid of the attack crap. Sagecandor (talk) 14:40, 6 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Weak keep. There are a lot of sources out there that discuss the "Trump resistance" (and/or the "anti-Trump resistance" or the "anti-Trump movement"); this particular phrasing is common enough to be at least defensible as the article title. Regardless of anyone's individual views on the politics of it all, there's clearly a notable political concept there. On the other hand, this is a weak keep because the current state of the article here just makes it really, really hard to say nice things about. I'm not sure it's quite to the TNT point of no return, but I can empathize with those who do. Squeamish Ossifrage (talk) 14:36, 6 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete Keeping an article requires not only that there are possible sources, which there clearly are for the phrase, but also that those sources are used to support text that meets the core content policies. There is no text here that does.  Core content overrides notability and is not optional.  This egregious violation of those standards needs to be deleted and a new article can be created in its place.  Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 15:40, 6 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Redirect to Protests against Donald Trump. A redirect to Indivisible movement would be WP:UNDUE. No content on this page worth merging into either of those articles. Power~enwiki (talk) 18:56, 6 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete - It's a non-starter, people protest all the time, this is no different.  — Calvin999  21:46, 6 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete - There are already a zillion articles in Category:Opposition to Donald Trump, and the significant material in this article could be easily merged into those existing articles.&#32;Anythingyouwant (talk) 22:11, 6 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Redirect to Protests against Donald Trump; Wikipedia does not need (just yet) two articles on these closely related topics. K.e.coffman (talk) 06:10, 7 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Redirect to Protests against Donald Trump; because that's what Trump Resistance actually means. --Skr15081997 (talk) 06:56, 7 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Redirect to Protests against Donald Trump; 'Protests against Donald Trump' is a much better-written article about what's basically the same topic, especially in light of Lettuce's actions. --EdgarCabreraFariña (talk) 12:07, 7 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete - Came across this AfD on BLPN. The page's current content could be easily merged into the countless other Opposition to Trump articles. Meatsgains (talk) 01:59, 8 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete. The present article exists solely as a POV-fork of Protests against Donald Trump.  For context, see this revision of the article, which spectacularly fails WP:NPOV.  The current revision has had the gross policy failures mostly removed, but there is now no reasonable scope for a separate article.   Sławomir Biały  (talk) 12:04, 12 June 2017 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Winged Blades Godric  08:02, 14 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Redirect to Protests against Donald Trump; But allow someone to start this again if they can skillfully add material about the topic that is different than "protests". NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 12:40, 14 June 2017 (UTC)
 * No. Protests are protests, and we should continue to cover them.  The Trump Resistance movement or Anti-Trump movement, is related to the anti-Trump protests, but it is a separate and notable topic.  Just as the Trump protests were a separate topic from the Trump campaign.E.M.Gregory (talk) 13:49, 15 June 2017 (UTC)
 * We are not in disagreement.  This could indeed by an article on the condition that a competent editor is working on it.  I'm not going to try to originate text, but I can help navigate issues as they arise.  Are you able/willing to take on the job of transforming this into something useful? NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 17:14, 15 June 2017 (UTC)
 * well, I made a start.E.M.Gregory (talk) 19:29, 15 June 2017 (UTC)


 * Keep I found this article because I was looking to see whether we had one in the wake of yesterday's shooting.  The term I was searching WP for was anti-Trump, and this was the hit I got.  So I looked a little further:
 * Future of the resistance: Where does the anti-Trump movement go from here?,Salon, 17 May 2017
 * Your Guide to the Sprawling New Anti-Trump Resistance Movement The Nation, February 6, 2017
 * The Anti-Trump Movement: Recover, Resist, Reform American Prospect, 4 April 2017
 * ''The Real Hero of the Trump Resistance? James Madison. National Review, June 14, 2017
 * The Trump Resistance: A Progress Report  The New Yorker, 17 April, 2017
 * The Anti-Trump ‘Resistance’ in Red States The Atlantic, 17 February 2017,.

Lots more available. It's a paltry article, but Deletion is not cleanup. The topic passes WP:GNG. We just need to improve the article.E.M.Gregory (talk) 13:49, 15 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Politics-related deletion discussions.E.M.Gregory (talk) 13:52, 15 June 2017 (UTC)


 * Keep per E.M.Gregory. In its current state it is a lousy article but there is a lot of content that should be developed into this subject.  We have a case of poor execution, not an issue with WP:N notability or WP:GNG coverage. Trackinfo (talk) 17:21, 15 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Comment I think that we need to reboot this discussion in the light of the response to yesterday's shooting.  Naomi Klein: Any Efforts to Equate Hateful Violence with Trump Resistance Are Lies   for the defense and Ann Coulter The ‘Resistance’ Goes Live-Fire for the prosecution..  It might have been possible to dismiss this movement two days ago, but the fact that the shooter was a backer of the "resistance" puts it firmly in the notable category, and none of the other articles we have is about this self-described anti-Trump "resistance"  as a movement.E.M.Gregory (talk) 15:11, 15 June 2017 (UTC)
 * User:E.M.Gregory, I disagree for two reasons. First, it would be inaccurate and offensive for Wikipedia to suggest that the shooter represents the views of this "resistance" which almost entirely rejects violence.  Second, we already have lots of articles to which this can properly redirect, including Donald Trump protests and Efforts to impeach Donald Trump.  The shooter undoubtedly supported both of those, and this could be briefly mentioned in both as an extreme example.  Plus we can give the shooting its very own article, 2017 Congressional baseball shooting. No need to do more than that, IMHO.&#32;Anythingyouwant (talk) 17:04, 15 June 2017 (UTC)
 * A.) I suggested only that the coverage of the shooter increases the notability of the topic, not that we should add it to the page. and B.) there is a resistance movement; it is more than a series of protests and it is not co-terminus with the list of Efforts to impeach.E.M.Gregory (talk) 15:44, 16 June 2017 (UTC)


 * WP:HEYMANN Made a start towards a proper article, Revised lede following The Nation (figured they should know,) created a substantively sourced section defining the movement, added participating organizations and a split over this within the LGBT community.E.M.Gregory (talk) 19:02, 15 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Comment - While I appreciate the good work going into this piece, it seems like this is a fork of Protests against Donald Trump, etc. A merge would seem to be the ticket. Carrite (talk) 01:00, 16 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep agree with E.M.Gregory (and thanks for pointing out Deletion is not cleanup, I hadn't seen that before). It needs a LOT of cleanup because it's still very POV, but it's definitely a notable topic and I don't think it's so bad that we need to blow it up and start over. Rockypedia (talk) 13:30, 16 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete as per Eggishorn and Sławomir Biały's reasoning. - GretLomborg (talk) 18:39, 16 June 2017 (UTC)
 * The most recent of those "reasonings" was four days ago; The article has changed considerably since then, and is much improved. NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 18:47, 16 June 2017 (UTC)


 * Comment Here's a gNews search by date showing that, argue as we may, the term/concept is in regular use.  Note however that "resistance" and  "Anti-Trump resistance" appears to be more in use the further left you look.  I propose that, after this AfD closes, we move the article to Anti-Trump movement (a title that currently directs to [[Anti-Trump protests) to signify that this is a broad  "movement" unified by its opposition to a single man/administration.  We have articles on many of the participating groups.  As I see it, the article needs work, but the notability and felt need in the press and in the general conversation for a way to discuss the broad anti-Trump movement - not merely the street protests - is clear.E.M.Gregory (talk) 14:04, 19 June 2017 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.