Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tsamara Amany


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Huliva 06:36, 25 December 2020 (UTC)

Tsamara Amany

 * – ( View AfD View log )

BLP of a party official and spokesperson who does not meet WP:NPOL. Mccapra (talk) 19:54, 1 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Politicians-related deletion discussions. Mccapra (talk) 19:54, 1 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. Mccapra (talk) 19:54, 1 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Indonesia-related deletion discussions. Mccapra (talk) 19:54, 1 December 2020 (UTC)


 * Keep she is quite notable in Indonesia as the main spokesperson for the PSI. She is fulfills general notability in my opinion Germartin1 (talk) 01:23, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete. Notability is not conferred just by saying that the person "fulfills general notability" — it is passed by showing the reliable source coverage about her that gets her over the bar: notability isn't a measure of what the article (or somebody commenting in an AFD discussion) says, it's a measure of the quality of the sources that are being shown to support what the article says. But being a political party apparatchik is not an "inherently" notable role that guarantees inclusion, and the footnotes here aren't getting her over WP:GNG: the first just briefly namechecks her existence in the process of being primarily about other people, the second is just her routine wedding announcement, and the third is just a photo gallery of her on what's clearly the Indonesian equivalent to Buzzfeed. This is not the kind of sourcing it takes to make a person notable for serving on the organizational board of a political party. Bearcat (talk) 19:00, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete Not enough sources. Instagram and Twitter should not be included under external links.--Blurz (talk) 01:16, 3 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Feel free to delete the links then. And feel also free to extend the article as there are many sources available. Germartin1 (talk) 17:36, 4 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete as fails NPOL.Faizal batliwala (talk) 15:08, 3 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep per User:Germartin1. BengkelBerkah05 (Talks/Contribs) 03:05, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep not a simple apparatchik, but rather chair of the party. Would concur that she fails NPOL, but rather passes the GNG. She has multiple year coverage in leading Indonesian and regional news sources.

regards,--Goldsztajn (talk) 23:08, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
 * "Chair of the party" still isn't an "inherently" notable role that guarantees inclusion in Wikipedia. And when it comes to sources, we're not just looking for any article that happens to have her name in it — we're looking for sources that are substantively analyzing her work, not sources that glancingly namecheck her existence in the process of being about something or someone else. Bearcat (talk) 18:05, 9 December 2020 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Missvain (talk) 00:22, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Comment Hi, I didn't suggest being chair of a party is notable per se (although it does contribute to notability), rather I was commenting on the fact that you had labelled her incorrectly (and dismissively) as an apparatchik; if you are wedded to cold war terminology, she would more acurately considered part of the nomenklatura...although the PSI is far from a ruling-party. AFAICS your comment doesn't engage with the sources I provided.
 * Regards, --Goldsztajn (talk) 23:04, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
 * "Apparatchik", as an English word, does not retain its original Russian meaning of referring only to a junior bureaucrat, but refers to anybody whose activity in politics is as a backroom organizer rather than a public elected legislator: per Oxford, "an official in a large political organization". Bearcat (talk) 23:07, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Apparatchik: The term is often considered derogatory, with negative connotations in terms of the quality, competence, and attitude of a person thus described... but we digress. Regards, --Goldsztajn (talk) 23:10, 9 December 2020 (UTC)


 * Comment More multi-year RS SIGCOV.
 * 1. In depth profile from Tempo (in Indonesian) on 2019 International Women's Day.
 * 2. 2017 Report discussing online smearing and release of her personal information (in Indonesian).
 * 3. 2019 Profile in Indonesian from Australian (public) national broadcaster during visit to Melbourne.
 * 4. 2018 report (in Indonesian) on her views on young people in politics from leading Indonesian news source.
 * 5. 2017 profile from Taiwanese news source.


 * Regards, --Goldsztajn (talk) 23:29, 9 December 2020 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Delete per nom and Bearcat argument above. Thanks, Kolma8 (talk) 11:14, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Missvain (talk) 16:02, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete - the coverage is not in-depth enough to satisfy WP:GNG.  Onel 5969  TT me 17:23, 24 December 2020 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.