Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tsolak MLKE-Galstyan


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Black Kite (talk) 16:16, 13 May 2020 (UTC)

Tsolak_MLKE-Galstyan
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Notability unclear, currently established through a single reference to an obscure journal. Needs more reliable, secondary sources presents to present the subject of the article as the founder of contemporary dance in Armenia. Charmanderblue (talk) 17:20, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Please note that there was some commentary at the malformed Articles for deletion/Tsolak MLKE-Galstyan (2nd nomination). I would advise to concentrate on finding good sources in Armenian and Russian, rather than bad sources in English. Phil Bridger (talk) 17:39, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I completely agree with you that the word founder is not the correct one to present a living person without the article where there isn't the statement about it, though Tsolak MLKE-Galstyan staged the performances in contemporary dance from 2003, and there are a lot the festivals and video documentations, which prove that fact. And before 2003 there were no theatres and performers who stated that they were working in contemporary dance. But I also understand that Wikipedia's rules are strict and II need to proove word by word the statements I have written in this page. So I would like to know whether, instead of the sentence Tsolak MLKE-Galstyan is considered to be one of the founders of contemporary dance in Armenia from Tsolak MLKE-Galstyan's wikipedia page, I can use the following sentence Tsolak MLKE-Galstyan is the first ones who has developed contemporary dance in Armenia Stella Loretsyan (talk) 17:44, 3 May 2020 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Stella Loretsyan (talk • contribs)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 17:47, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Dance-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 17:47, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Armenia-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 17:47, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Artists-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 17:48, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much for your advice . There are a lot of articles about Tsolak MLKE-Galstyan in Armenian and Russian and also there is an article about Tsolak MLKE-Galstyan in the book  Contemporary Dance in the Former Soviet  Union by the Russian Contemporary Dance historian and teacher Ekaterina Vasenina. Can the articles in the Armenian and Russian newspapers and magazines  and the book be considered good sources? Here are some articles in Armenian:

https://www.aravot.am/2012/07/19/302279/

http://www.panarmenian.net/arm/news/112350/

http://panarmenian.net/arm/news/78500/

https://www.aysor.am/am/news/2009/02/10/mihr/6734

Info in English:

http://www.lairarts.com/tsolak-galstyan.html

https://www.gabrielleneuhaus.com/lavash/

http://asbarez.com/97973/citf-and-adaa-host-us-premiere-from-mihr-theatre-of-armenia/

https://www.panarmenian.net/eng/news/65602/

Thank you in advance!Stella Loretsyan (talk) 18:00, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete lacks WP:sigcov ot establish notability. Formatted as a promotional CV. Not sure where one would begin to trim it, or what the underlying notable activity might be once trimmed. Theatre manager? Also, how can someone who was born in 1984 be a "founder of contemporary dance in Armenia?" Assuming they got started at 22 years old with the "founding activities", that would mean that contemporary dance in Armenia started in 2006, which is extremely unlikely, seeing as it started in the 1950s or earlier in other places. In sum the article has a lot of hype and not much to convince me of notability. ThatMontrealIP (talk) 19:04, 3 May 2020 (UTC)


 * You can check and will see, that contemporary dance as a theatrical direction has been developed in Armenia from 2000s and not only in Armenia, but also in other former Soviet Union countres, for example in Russia, it has been developing from 1990s. The main reason why contemporary dance theatrical diirection has been developing so late, is the political situation and Cold War between Soviet Union and Western countries, where the theatrical direction contemporary dance developed and only after the collapse of Soviet Union, the borders were opened and we could develop arts in the direction the Western countries developed.

And if I will replace "founder of contemporary dance in Armenia? with ethe statement Tsolak MLKE-Galstyan is the first ones who has developed contemporary dance in Armenia can this problem be solved?Stella Loretsyan (talk) 19:17, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
 * (after edit conflict) Remember that Armenia was a republic of the Soviet Union, where classical ballet was promoted at the expense of contemporary dance, until 1991. It is not beyond the realm of possibility that contemporary dance didn't take off until the 2000s. Phil Bridger (talk) 19:22, 3 May 2020 (UTC)


 * But contemporary dance in its purer form, not as classical ballet, started to develop only in 2000s, and I can state it a resident of Armenia, who lived there for 34 years. And  I want to ask once again:  if I will replace  "founder of contemporary dance in Armenia? with ethe statement Tsolak MLKE-Galstyan is the first ones who has developed contemporary dance in Armenia can this problem be solved? Stella Loretsyan (talk) 19:31, 3 May 2020 (UTC) — Stella Loretsyan (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * It's pretty obvious puffery. The article itself states that he was first a dance student in 2006. If you look at the associated Mihr (theatre), there is a whole lot of promotion going on in its 66KB of text. Australian_Dance_Theatre, founded in 1965, has 12K. ThatMontrealIP (talk) 19:34, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

Tsolak MLKE-Galstyan has founded his Theatre in 2003. After which, he continued his studies and got Trainings in contemporary Dance in different countries to improve his technics and knowledge both as a choreographer and as a dancer. And I did not understand tha part of promotions, because I only put the articles Which I found in Google. And If the problem is the word founder can I replace it with the following statement: Tsolak MLKE-Galstyan is the first ones who has developed contemporary dance in Armenia? Stella Loretsyan (talk) 19:46, 3 May 2020 (UTC)


 * That rewording still requires a substantial source to back it up as the references fail to back up the claims that the person is 'one of the first to have developed XYZ'. I would strongly urge to find multiple credible sources to demonstrate the notability of the subject of the article. The only undisputed fact that is verifiable as of now is the fact that he runs a certain theater and performs as a dancer. This is not sufficient for WP:GNG. Charmanderblue (talk) 22:56, 3 May 2020 (UTC)


 * The obvious puffery aside, I now have reasonable grounds to believe that the article on Tsolak MLKE-Galstyan and Mihr (theatre) were created and edited in violation of the rules of either WP:PAID or WP:COI. In respect to privacy I obviously cannot divulge the specifics on a public channel, but I'm strongly confident in my opinion. I'd appreciate for a more seasoned editor to take a look. Maybe ?. Charmanderblue (talk) 20:01, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
 * , perhaps let us know if you are connected to the subjects here, per WP:COI. ThatMontrealIP (talk) 20:05, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I am true to WP:AFG unless hard evidence dictates otherwise. I can disclose more of the evidence I hold but I obviously won't on a public channel. It's not rocket science though, and should take a proficient administrator a minute. Either way, I will be exercising WP:BOLD and will be tagging both articles with the relevant notices of possible edits done in return for undisclosed financial gain. But I'd strongly prefer if someone more seasoned reviewed this case until then. Maybe ? Charmanderblue (talk) 20:11, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

I have been studying contemporary dance and art for already 15 year and during my studies I have found out Mihr theatre. I only attand their performances and I am a follower of their pages in Facebook and in Insatgram. Sometimes I share their posts, but I have no personal connection with them. As I mentioned, I study contemporary dance in the world and in Armenia, so I have decided to put articles about contemporary dance in Armenia and started with MIHR theatre, as they are one of the developers of contemporary dance, and in my opinion they are important for the contemporary dance scene of Armenia. After them I have decided to represent also other performers in contemporary dance of Armenie in wikipedia platform. I work volunteery on my own initiative, I am not being paid, I have no intention to make promotions and I only want to enrich wikipedia with English articles about Armenian artists and performers, as I am also translator of the English Language. Stella Loretsyan (talk) 21:06, 3 May 2020 (UTC)


 * I apologize if this sounds like an invasive line of questioning and you are under no obligation to respond, but if you happen to know Tsolak MLKE-Galstyan personally as a friend than I would strongly suggest reading WP:COI. Charmanderblue (talk) 21:13, 3 May 2020 (UTC)


 * I can ensure you that I am not a friend of Tsolak MLKE-Galstyan. I study contemporary dance and as their theatre is having performances in the contemporary dance I attand their performances as a usual spectator and as, now, in Armenia Facebook is one of the platforms, where We can know about future events of the theatres, concert groups, etc., I follow their facebook page simply to know when they are going to have performances, that's all.Stella Loretsyan (talk) 21:26, 3 May 2020 (UTC)


 * The only thing which I would like to ask you, as an seasoned editor, is to help me to improve my article, as I am a new user, and your help will be very useful for me. Stella Loretsyan (talk) 21:28, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Discussion continued at Conflict_of_interest/Noticeboard. Please discuss any COI issues there, rather than here. ThatMontrealIP (talk) 21:53, 3 May 2020 (UTC)


 * Delete - I could not find enough to establish notability as per guidelines WP:ARTIST WP:ENTERTAINER, or WP:CREATIVE. Netherzone (talk) 16:49, 6 May 2020 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.