Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Turkish Genocide (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Salted. Eddie891 Talk Work 01:30, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

Turkish Genocide
AfDs for this article:


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Article is a WP:POVFORK of Persecution of Muslims during Ottoman contraction, uses a WP:POV title "Genocide" which is not reflecting any academic consensus on the matter (the vast majority of the world's scholars and academics do not even view it as such), and makes selective use of sources and events to support the WP:OR theory that they constituted an organized genocide. The article has already been created and nominated for deletion in the distant past (2004), and indeed it got deleted, for the simple fact that it violated Wikipedia's rules. The current, 2nd instance of the article, was created in May 2021, by an editor who appears to be WP:NOTHERE to improve Wikipedia and their edits stink of POV agenda, again violating numerous Wikipedia's rules. --- ❖ SilentResident ❖ (talk &#9993; &#124; contribs &#9998;) 23:55, 31 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Edited the nomination to include the missing template. —Nizolan (talk · c.) 00:32, 1 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of History-related deletion discussions. North America1000 03:35, 1 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Europe-related deletion discussions. North America1000 03:36, 1 June 2021 (UTC)


 * Snow close and delete This is a prime example of POV editing, where diverse unrelated massacres and other incidents over a long period of time are lumped together with war casualties and migration as results of treaties. The terms 'Muslims' and 'Turks' are conveniently used interchangeably, so that even atrocities against Muslim Albanians can count as part of the "genocide". No source is given for the use of the term 'genocide', which is not even used in the article. Googling the three terms 'Turkish-Muslim massacres', 'Muslim-Turk Genocide' and 'Turkish massacres' used in the lede gives almost only results about massacres against Armenians, against Christians and Jews etc. Adding to this, the selective use of cherry-picked information from sources of very diverse quality. This 'article' is not even worth draftifying. --T*U (talk) 11:43, 1 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete. The article is almost entirely synthesis, in some cases relying on primary sources. None of the sources given discusses the topic, as such, under the broad scope of the article. Searching the more specific "genocide of Turks" turns up nothing on Google Books other than some scattered political pieces. The one apparent qualification to 's point above about none of the sources using the term seems to be the 1820s Peloponnese case: William St Clair does actually describe the 1820s massacres of Turks in the Morea as "genocide" . But I can only find one other use of the term in this context in a reliable source, and the topic is already discussed (including St Clair's quote) at Massacres during the Greek War of Independence. Besides the specific term "genocide", a general laundry list of atrocities against Turks throughout modern history would probably be redundant to Anti-Turkish sentiment. —Nizolan (talk · c.) 12:43, 1 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete as a fork. Srnec (talk) 01:56, 2 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete as WP:SYNTH. Sources don't discuss or group the events in this way, and we shouldn't either. Like Nizolam and TU-nor, I tried to dig into this a little with searching variants (the current title is unhelpful for obvious reasons), but I'm still not seeing anything. Regards, 31.41.45.190 (talk) 05:24, 3 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete as POV synth/OR nonsense fork of an existing article, aimed at righting great wrongs. Maybe worth salting the title, also, given its history. --DoubleGrazing (talk) 06:26, 3 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Support salting. --T*U (talk) 08:02, 3 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Support salting too. (WP:SALT) Since the article Turkish Genocide had 4 articles created about it in Wikipedia (2 articles titled "Turkish Genocide", one article titled "Turkish Genocide by Greeks in the Balkans" and another one titled "Turkish Genocide in Peloponnese"), salting should apply to all.--- ❖ SilentResident ❖ (talk &#9993; &#124; contribs &#9998;) 10:23, 3 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Support for salting. Per WP:SYNTH and essentially every other point which has already been raised; I don't have much to add. Have a great day, everybody. BaxçeyêReş (talk) 18:23, 5 June 2021 (UTC)


 * Delete and salt article, per points given above, and probably block creator as a textbook case of WP:NOTHERE. - Kevo3 2 7 (talk) 22:17, 5 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Support blocking creator per points expressed by Kevo327. --- ❖ SilentResident ❖ (talk &#9993; &#124; contribs &#9998;) 22:50, 5 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Whether another editor should be blocked isn't something to be decided here. This AfD considers the fate of the article, not its creator. (Just saying, before this turns into a lynch mob situation.) --DoubleGrazing (talk) 05:06, 6 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes, but while the AfD is about the article's fate, it doesn't mean we can't also propose action to be taken against the source of the problem; of course it still is up to the admin's capacity to decide whether an WP:NOTHERE account which had zero positive contributions so far, follows agendas and is creating only problems, may be let on loose.
 * We aren't here to lynch mobs or determine what action the admins may take against that account on the matter, just we are pointing out to the fact it is this very account behind the creation of this propaganda article, and it is in our best interests to make sure this account won't resort again to such problematic contributions in the future, by understanding the necessity of following Wikipedia's rules. If no whatsoever actions are taken against that account for their disruptive agendas so far, then it is unlikely that the account will change their course for the better in the future. Good day. --- ❖ SilentResident ❖ (talk &#9993; &#124; contribs &#9998;) 07:07, 6 June 2021 (UTC)


 * Delete The article is a petty attempt of popularising an artificial concept created and promoted by history falsifiers such as notorious revisionist, denier of Armenian, Pontian Greek and Assyrian Genocides Justin McCarthy. The creator of the article U:Turkhistory appears WP:NOTHERE as I see others users already pointed out above. --Armatura (talk) 14:01, 6 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Disperse content (by merging) then delete -- The wars of the Ottoman contraction were nasty affairs. What the Turks did to Christian rebels was also very nasty.  There may be some content in these articles which could usefully be merged to other articles, but none of this was genocide.  There certainly seem to have been a series of massacres.  Some of these are about sieges, which are also potentially nasty, particularly where a city is taken by storm, in which case the medieval laws of (European) war gave the victors a free hand against the citizens, civilian or military.  We cannot however keep this article, which is clearly written from a Turkish POV, without appropriate balancing POVs from independence movements.  Peterkingiron (talk) 16:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete unexistant topic and biased page. Also a duplicate of Persecution of Muslims during the Ottoman contraction. Super   Ψ   Dro  18:54, 6 June 2021 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.